WEBVTT

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Welcome everyone to the ordinary meeting

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of council for the 22nd of April 2026. I

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begin today by acknowledging the

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traditional custodians of the land on

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which we meet and pay respects to Elders

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past, present and emerging and extend

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that respect to Aboriginal Torres Strait 

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Islander people here today. We

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acknowledge the stories, traditions and

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living cultures of a Aboriginal Torres Strait

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Islander people on this land and

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commit to building a brighter future

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together. Councilors, no apologies, but

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there is item 3.1, which is the

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application for leave of absence from

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councelor Preston I'm happy to move

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the recommendation, which I don't have

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exactly in front of me, but

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we have a second councilor Broadbent. And

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if there's no discussion on that one,

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council is going to put the motion. All

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those in favor, that's unanimous and

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carried. So, we go to confirmation of

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minutes. So I'll move that the minutes

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of the ordinary meeting of council held

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in the WB Freebody chambers Nellie

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Hamilton center on 8th of April 2026 be

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confirmed and we have a second councilor

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Preston. Is there any discussion on the

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minutes? If not we'll put the motion all

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in favor that's unanimous and carried.

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We now move to disclosure of interests.

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So I'll move that councilors and staff

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now disclose any interest and reasons

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for declaring such interest in the

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matters under consideration by council

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at this meeting and that's seconded by

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councelor MacDonald.

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We'll put that motion. All in favor,

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unanimous and carried. And I assume

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there's no disclosures. So we can move

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on to the first item for determination,

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which is item 8.1 Queanbeyan and District

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Basketball Association request for

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refund of development application

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related fees. We have a mover, councelor

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Wilson. Second to councelor Taskovski.

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Councelor Wilson.

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 thank you  Mayor and thank you Gary

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for coming and presenting tonight. 

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the the Queanbeyan basketball facility is

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a great community facility.  as as

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Gary noted, it's been servicing the

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community for many many years.  it is

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also a facility that's well outgrown.

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It's  it's been discussed since 2018.

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I think was, you know, it needed to be

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expanded.  we're getting very close to

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the pointy end. We just need a little

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bit more resource  to get that finish

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that off. And part of that resource 

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could be a future budget bid, but

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tonight  relates to the to the

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donation to reimburse  the DA fees.

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Now, we know in the report that some of

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those fees are actually collected by

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council given to the state government,

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but I think that's a a more minor item

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for myself just want to say to

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councilors this facility supports 

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the Queanbeyan youth like many of our other,

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you know, the grounds we look after, but

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we don't pay for the maintenance on this

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one and it is in such a great

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location. It also helps us with our

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future basketball considerations as

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well also actually could be a net save

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in the long run actually  by

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supporting this facilities

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redevelopment. So you know that said

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more than happy to to move this 

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recommendation. Thank you mayor.

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Thank you councelor Wilson. Councelor

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Tasakovski.

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Thank you Mr. Mayor. I've been living

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there for last 55 years and they started

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back 35 years and they developed greatly

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the playing fields and all the other

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security things parking and all the

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necessary action and I hope they make it

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even the playing fields better than what

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they are but it cost too much we know

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all

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thank you Mr. Mayor.

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Okay, further speakers. Councelor

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MacDonald,

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this is a difficult one, , Mayor

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because what we have is not a

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unique situation. I've spoke to Mr.

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Bulmont to  Gary about this. It's not

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a unique situation

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um because we get through many

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mechanisms cost shifting  through

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state and federal friends and this is in

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some manner of speaking a cost shift.

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There is a grant back in 2023 to the

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 to what was estimated to be the

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project total  which for a range of

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factors has  you know almost 3 years

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hence come up short  and that's

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happening everywhere that's absolutely

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happening everywhere so I think this is

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to what extent the state or

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federal members  really care 

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should be a warning

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sign to them that your grants  can't

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meet your project cost to the scent

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if there is we're going to be smarter

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about this  and I would

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implore  the grant authorities to to

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be smarter so as that when 

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they are handing out money and it all

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sounds great  and when it go comes

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time to put the shovel in the ground it

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only equates to about 80% of the project

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cost. council's left carrying the baby

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 and it's a very expensive baby 

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across the  across the entire LGA. I

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 I am  in in in that respect um a

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reluctant supporter of this and I

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supported on the principles that Mr.

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Bulmont has   explained on the

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on the merits of the club.  and I

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think  without sort of a  you know

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invoking some sort of

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 international maxim  there is a too

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big to fail on these  on this question

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and I  regret that were if it is not

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for  council then the likely prospect

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is that  no one else would come to 

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to save the party.

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Thank you councelor MacDonald. Is there

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further speakers? Councelor Broadbent.

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Yeah, I won't extend on councelor

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MacDonald's points. I do I feel the same,

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but I will be supporting  this motion

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tonight.  I  have a number of kids on

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the youth committee  that sit with me

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and a number of those  participate in

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basketball and of course have friends in

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the Canberra area that participate in

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basketball and it a the den there

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is a found is a is a very critical 

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component of that community.  and it's

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and it's important can't be understated.

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I did want to pick up  in the report

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um which I assume perhaps council Wilson

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will agree with me but there is a it

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says in the report um a little line that

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says there is a reputational

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consideration in ensuring consistency

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with previous council decisions

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including support provided to other

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community organizations similar

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requests. I want to be very clear 

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from my perspective that the whole

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reason council exists is that these

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decisions are taken on their own merit

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decision by decision. I don't think

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 a statement like that to be honest

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is is useful in a council report because

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it does take away from the purpose of

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council  and counselors and our job in

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in  representing our community and

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their interests. And so  just a

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quick note there. But but yeah,

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thanks.

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Thank you, Councelor Robb. Councelor

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Willis.

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 thank you. I'm concerned that  this

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is becoming quite common that we're

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getting requests to wave  costs

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including grant costs  costs

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associated with grant funded projects.

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The grant funding should cover the basic

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cost to council. This happened with the

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Braidwood Heritage Center and when they

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first asked, we didn't give them the

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money. It was a lot of money and we

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didn't have the money. Eventually, we

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gave them the money because the the

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project was at the point where it would

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have failed after having been dragged

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out and they had a lot of difficulties

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with contractors um going bust etc. So I

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tend to agree with councelor broadbent

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that every  consideration every 

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request needs to be on its own merits.

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Um but I also think that perhaps council

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needs a bit more rigor around you know

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some of the criteria. So it's not simply

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oh well what do we think about this? We

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do need um a bit better framework

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because this is all adding up. And um my

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concern with this um prop well I have a

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couple of concerns with this particular

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request. Um notwithstanding the fact

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that the community organization does

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provide an important um sporting asset.

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I'm not disputing that. But this is

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actually  only part of the funding

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that they're seeking from us for this

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project. There's a as um speaker said

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there's another $200,000 to be requested

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in the budget. So by asking us to re 

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basically refund 51,000,

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it's not actually the full picture. And

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um I'm I'm not really sure why we're

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being asked to  do this in two

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tranches really.  why are we not um 

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considering the refund with the other

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request? Because then the community and

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the council would have a a far better

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idea about the scale of what we're being

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asked to support.  the other the other

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thing is um the group is now receiving

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um some substantial rates relief. Um I

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think this financial year was the first

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time  close to half of the council

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rates um were re refunded basically or

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or  given as a donation and um the

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same is proposed for next financial

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year. but also um the organization was

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going to go to the regional sports

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complex and decided that at the end of

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the day it didn't want to do that and

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now the the community's been put in a

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position where it's being asked to

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subsidize that decision really you shake

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your head but I'm talking and I  my my

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concern is that the council's the

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council's worked really hard to 

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increase its um unrestricted cash , I

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did ask um in written questions what the

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unrestricted cash balance at the end of

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March quarter was. It's $3.3 million.

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It's not a lot of money, particularly

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given we're getting these regular

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requests to help top up grant funding.

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Um, so  if we approve this, what

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happens with the next one? I mean, we

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are very quickly eroding the u our

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unrestricted cash. We've also got other

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items on the business paper that are

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requiring topup  because the original

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project scopes changed and we're having

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to look for other funds to cover it. So

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my concern is that this is becoming um

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 an ingrained  part of how the

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council is operating and it's not

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sustainable and if we're not careful we

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will end up in the situation we are in

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in when the in 2122 when we were

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presented with the fact that the council

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had almost no  unrestricted cash and

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that and we were we set out on the task

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of the special rate variation to try and

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build that. So I do have some concerns

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um about the trend that is developing.

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Thank you. Councelor Willis. Is there

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further speakers? I might just make

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There he is. Councelor Grundy. I Yeah,

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Councelor Grundy.

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Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I won't be

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supporting this. Probably won't surprise

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most of you. Um I agree with a lot of

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what councelor Willis has said.

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um this sort of allocation well it's not

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an allocation it's a refund um it it it

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can't go on we don't have unlimited

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funds we have we have finite resources

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um we have many many groups in our

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community asking us um to provide

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assistance

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 once we go down this track um it's

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very difficult then for us to um undo

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those decisions so to speak by the

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preced they set. I will um I won't go

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over what  what has already been said

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here against this um recommendation, but

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I will say this that this  refund and

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it's a refund. So, the group have

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actually paid it. They can afford to pay

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it. They found the money. Now, they're

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asking for that money to be paid back to

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them. I want to clarify part of the

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money they're asking to be repaid to

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them by council by rateayers is actually

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a state governmentmandated

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fee or charge and that is the  plan

00:12:41.519 --> 00:12:44.519
first levy of nearly $3,000.

00:12:45.040 --> 00:12:48.040
Um now if we repay what's being asked

00:12:48.160 --> 00:12:51.160
tonight or refund what actually happens

00:12:51.440 --> 00:12:54.136
is the state gets to keep their their

00:12:54.160 --> 00:12:56.696
money.  they tick that box. They've

00:12:56.720 --> 00:12:59.720
got they've got that mandated fee. Um

00:13:01.040 --> 00:13:03.016
but what we are actually doing by

00:13:03.040 --> 00:13:05.976
refunding  as is requested tonight,

00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:08.055
we're actually we're ending up paying

00:13:08.079 --> 00:13:11.079
the fee for the state. I I just don't

00:13:11.279 --> 00:13:14.279
believe that's that's fair. Um I'm sick

00:13:14.959 --> 00:13:17.959
of this cross um subsidizing that's

00:13:18.480 --> 00:13:21.255
going on with with local councils and

00:13:21.279 --> 00:13:22.935
state government.

00:13:22.959 --> 00:13:25.959
um we should not be refunding

00:13:26.560 --> 00:13:29.560
um what are statutory fees and charges

00:13:30.720 --> 00:13:32.856
allowing the state to keep that money in

00:13:32.880 --> 00:13:35.176
its hot little hands and our poor

00:13:35.200 --> 00:13:38.200
rateayers um are coughing up for the

00:13:38.880 --> 00:13:41.880
refund. So I won't be supporting this

00:13:42.160 --> 00:13:45.016
and I also agree that I question why

00:13:45.040 --> 00:13:48.040
this has been put put to us today. Um

00:13:48.480 --> 00:13:50.615
and there's another bite of the cherry

00:13:50.639 --> 00:13:53.495
coming up for $200,000

00:13:53.519 --> 00:13:56.055
um budget request in a few weeks time.

00:13:56.079 --> 00:13:58.136
Thank you.

00:13:58.160 --> 00:13:59.896
Thank you councelor Grundy. I'm just

00:13:59.920 --> 00:14:01.175
going to make a couple of comments on

00:14:01.199 --> 00:14:03.096
this one. Councilors considering the

00:14:03.120 --> 00:14:06.120
debate that has taken place

00:14:08.800 --> 00:14:10.375
District Basketball Association is a not

00:14:10.399 --> 00:14:12.216
for-p profofit. Let's not forget the

00:14:12.240 --> 00:14:14.055
fact these people are volunteers and

00:14:14.079 --> 00:14:16.456
they run their own facility and they

00:14:16.480 --> 00:14:18.216
shouldn't be punished by the fact that

00:14:18.240 --> 00:14:19.736
they're basically the only sporting

00:14:19.760 --> 00:14:22.375
organization in the council area that

00:14:22.399 --> 00:14:24.456
owns their own is lucky enough and has

00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:26.456
done a good enough job over 50 years to

00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:28.935
own their own facility.

00:14:28.959 --> 00:14:30.536
Council Willis, it's not correct to say

00:14:30.560 --> 00:14:31.656
that they were going to move out to

00:14:31.680 --> 00:14:33.175
regional sports center. The people that

00:14:33.199 --> 00:14:35.255
run Queen basketball never ever wanted

00:14:35.279 --> 00:14:37.336
to move out to South Jerombra. That was

00:14:37.360 --> 00:14:39.255
something that was put to them by the

00:14:39.279 --> 00:14:41.175
council at the time as basically an

00:14:41.199 --> 00:14:43.175
ultimatum saying we're not going to help

00:14:43.199 --> 00:14:44.456
you with your current facility. We're

00:14:44.480 --> 00:14:46.216
not going to give you any money. You can

00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:48.216
move out to South Kombra. And they never

00:14:48.240 --> 00:14:51.096
wanted to do that. They were very lucky

00:14:51.120 --> 00:14:52.935
that they received funding from the

00:14:52.959 --> 00:14:55.959
government to do  the expansion that

00:14:57.199 --> 00:14:58.456
they're looking at. They've had to

00:14:58.480 --> 00:15:00.856
adjust their plans multiple multiple

00:15:00.880 --> 00:15:03.880
times and adjust them because the cost

00:15:04.880 --> 00:15:07.416
to construct keeps going and keeps going

00:15:07.440 --> 00:15:09.815
up and that's why which is a totally

00:15:09.839 --> 00:15:11.255
separate item going to come to council.

00:15:11.279 --> 00:15:12.536
There is going to be a request for them

00:15:12.560 --> 00:15:14.856
for separate funding to help finish off

00:15:14.880 --> 00:15:16.856
the works that they want to do. The

00:15:16.880 --> 00:15:18.456
reason why they are separate is because

00:15:18.480 --> 00:15:21.480
that is a well for cash for them from

00:15:22.399 --> 00:15:24.375
the council. This is a refund of

00:15:24.399 --> 00:15:25.896
development application fees and they

00:15:25.920 --> 00:15:28.456
are two very separate things. Everyone

00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:30.216
seems to be on the same page about the

00:15:30.240 --> 00:15:32.375
government grant guidelines need to be

00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:35.399
changed or updated so that we we don't

00:15:35.680 --> 00:15:37.416
have to continue to do this. And I'm in

00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:39.416
total agreement and I'm happy to write

00:15:39.440 --> 00:15:41.175
to the treasurer or whoever we need to

00:15:41.199 --> 00:15:43.175
the premier to say that it should be the

00:15:43.199 --> 00:15:44.536
policy that if they're going to provide

00:15:44.560 --> 00:15:46.696
funding to community groups that are

00:15:46.720 --> 00:15:48.216
going to be doing capital works where

00:15:48.240 --> 00:15:49.976
they're going to incur DA fees and we

00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:51.576
know that's going to happen that that

00:15:51.600 --> 00:15:52.935
should be covered as part of the grant

00:15:52.959 --> 00:15:54.776
and that's a separate thing and we can

00:15:54.800 --> 00:15:55.896
do that and I think we're all in

00:15:55.920 --> 00:15:57.735
agreement that that should happen.

00:15:57.759 --> 00:16:00.216
McQueen basketball shouldn't be at a

00:16:00.240 --> 00:16:02.615
disadvantage simply because others

00:16:02.639 --> 00:16:04.856
within our council area have also been

00:16:04.880 --> 00:16:07.016
lucky enough to get grant funding to

00:16:07.040 --> 00:16:09.175
build capital works but required

00:16:09.199 --> 00:16:11.096
development applications like restbite

00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:13.576
care like braidwood heritage like queen

00:16:13.600 --> 00:16:16.136
cityf are going to do like bangador

00:16:16.160 --> 00:16:17.896
preschool are going to do we're going to

00:16:17.920 --> 00:16:20.296
continue to receive these requests until

00:16:20.320 --> 00:16:22.136
the grant guidelines are fixed but I

00:16:22.160 --> 00:16:24.615
think that's a totally separate thing

00:16:24.639 --> 00:16:26.136
we're not setting a precedent with this

00:16:26.160 --> 00:16:27.735
we've done it before there are not for

00:16:27.759 --> 00:16:29.576
profit. We're just refunding DA fees

00:16:29.600 --> 00:16:32.216
that they've  that they have incurred

00:16:32.240 --> 00:16:35.096
and I'll be supporting the motion. If

00:16:35.120 --> 00:16:36.375
there's further discussion, otherwise

00:16:36.399 --> 00:16:37.976
I'm going to ask councelor Wilson to sum

00:16:38.000 --> 00:16:41.000
up debate. Councelor Wilson.

00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:43.016
Thank you, Mayor. Thank you for that

00:16:43.040 --> 00:16:44.536
excellent contribution, which I was

00:16:44.560 --> 00:16:47.560
happy to not along to. Um I think it 

00:16:49.120 --> 00:16:50.696
I just want to make two quick points on

00:16:50.720 --> 00:16:52.856
this one. Um because we went to the

00:16:52.880 --> 00:16:53.976
community, we asked the community to

00:16:54.000 --> 00:16:55.416
work with us so that we could be in a

00:16:55.440 --> 00:16:56.856
position where we can do things like

00:16:56.880 --> 00:16:59.815
this  and we can afford it.  as

00:16:59.839 --> 00:17:01.976
councelor Broadbent noted, we will

00:17:02.000 --> 00:17:03.976
consider each  application on its

00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:05.336
merit. I think that's quite important.

00:17:05.360 --> 00:17:06.935
We always bang on about there's not

00:17:06.959 --> 00:17:09.015
precedent in this chamber. We consider

00:17:09.039 --> 00:17:11.096
things as they come. Others have made

00:17:11.120 --> 00:17:12.696
good points about cost shifting,

00:17:12.720 --> 00:17:14.456
although I don't think it's, as the

00:17:14.480 --> 00:17:16.136
mayor has noted, is Queen District

00:17:16.160 --> 00:17:18.295
Basketball Association's fault. And that

00:17:18.319 --> 00:17:20.295
was my gut reaction when I heard a bit

00:17:20.319 --> 00:17:21.736
of a too bad, too sad. You had it

00:17:21.760 --> 00:17:23.256
offered for you to go out to South

00:17:23.280 --> 00:17:25.015
Jerobomber and you you decided to stay

00:17:25.039 --> 00:17:28.039
put. I mean, that's just um wrong. 

00:17:28.400 --> 00:17:30.376
and and quite a little bit mean in a

00:17:30.400 --> 00:17:32.535
way.  the truth is this organization

00:17:32.559 --> 00:17:34.775
doesn't cost us.  we don't have to

00:17:34.799 --> 00:17:36.136
maintain the grass there. We don't have

00:17:36.160 --> 00:17:37.496
to mow the lawns like we do in other

00:17:37.520 --> 00:17:39.336
fields, etc. that support kids to play

00:17:39.360 --> 00:17:41.416
sports. So, very happy to back this one

00:17:41.440 --> 00:17:43.176
tonight. Thank you.

00:17:43.200 --> 00:17:44.856
Thank you. I'm going to put the motion.

00:17:44.880 --> 00:17:46.775
All those in favor are councilors

00:17:46.799 --> 00:17:49.015
Broadbent, Livermore, MacDonald, Preston,

00:17:49.039 --> 00:17:51.096
Tascowski, Waterhouse, Wilson, and

00:17:51.120 --> 00:17:53.015
Winchester. And against, councilors

00:17:53.039 --> 00:17:55.816
Grundy, Schwacket, and Willis. I declare

00:17:55.840 --> 00:17:58.696
it carried. The next item is 8.2, the

00:17:58.720 --> 00:18:00.696
draft development waste guidelines for

00:18:00.720 --> 00:18:02.936
public consultation. We have a mover,

00:18:02.960 --> 00:18:04.216
councelor Willis, second, councelor

00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:06.376
Taskski. Councelor Willis.

00:18:06.400 --> 00:18:09.256
, thank you. Can I thank um I've

00:18:09.280 --> 00:18:12.280
forgotten Toby's last name. Um the

00:18:12.559 --> 00:18:14.616
officer for the presentation. I read

00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:15.895
through all the guidelines and

00:18:15.919 --> 00:18:17.256
attachments. I think they're very

00:18:17.280 --> 00:18:19.816
thorough and they will make a big

00:18:19.840 --> 00:18:21.655
difference. I live in a part of Queanbeyan

00:18:21.679 --> 00:18:23.416
where you can see what poor waste

00:18:23.440 --> 00:18:25.816
management in multi-dwelling units and

00:18:25.840 --> 00:18:28.056
residential flat buildings looks like

00:18:28.080 --> 00:18:31.080
and the poor  impact it has on amenity

00:18:31.120 --> 00:18:33.816
and just the feel of the neighborhood. I

00:18:33.840 --> 00:18:35.816
was particularly pleased to see that the

00:18:35.840 --> 00:18:37.976
guideline requires

00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:40.216
um these new developments to include

00:18:40.240 --> 00:18:42.936
space for bulky waste to be stored on

00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:45.960
site like in a in the waste area um

00:18:46.080 --> 00:18:48.775
rather than  some of the older units

00:18:48.799 --> 00:18:51.799
had small storage areas and consequently

00:18:52.559 --> 00:18:55.559
um you know things that people need to

00:18:55.840 --> 00:18:58.840
 send to landfill end up piling up on

00:18:59.200 --> 00:19:01.576
the street  until you've got an

00:19:01.600 --> 00:19:04.600
enormous um awful full  eyes saw and a

00:19:05.679 --> 00:19:08.216
health hazard. So having space 

00:19:08.240 --> 00:19:11.240
allocated  to accommodate that sort of

00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:14.535
 material is good. There's also um

00:19:14.559 --> 00:19:17.496
foreshadowing for textile waste  for

00:19:17.520 --> 00:19:19.816
recycling for the future. They're all

00:19:19.840 --> 00:19:22.840
really good. Um, I did have one question

00:19:23.360 --> 00:19:26.360
which was about um  the  the there

00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:33.000
was a in the the guide there is a um

00:19:33.840 --> 00:19:35.736
requirement to be able to place your

00:19:35.760 --> 00:19:38.696
bins in a on the street um so that they

00:19:38.720 --> 00:19:41.096
can be collected and I asked well what

00:19:41.120 --> 00:19:42.856
happens when that can't happen and you

00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:44.616
have to walk them out. I think one of

00:19:44.640 --> 00:19:46.616
the the real challenges and it's a

00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:49.416
problem now as well as I think it will

00:19:49.440 --> 00:19:51.256
be a challenge in future for new

00:19:51.280 --> 00:19:54.056
developments is that the streets are

00:19:54.080 --> 00:19:56.216
full of cars on bin night. They're

00:19:56.240 --> 00:19:58.856
parked both sides of the street. I know

00:19:58.880 --> 00:20:00.775
in my experience, they're parked right

00:20:00.799 --> 00:20:03.799
up to our driveway, and it can be very

00:20:03.919 --> 00:20:06.216
difficult to actually put your bin out

00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:08.136
 in a place where you can be confident

00:20:08.160 --> 00:20:11.160
that the  the truck will be able to,

00:20:11.760 --> 00:20:14.760
you know, collect it. And I'm not sure I

00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:17.096
don't have a solution to this, but I do

00:20:17.120 --> 00:20:19.895
think it's a growing problem.  I don't

00:20:19.919 --> 00:20:22.616
know how many times the trucks have said

00:20:22.640 --> 00:20:24.535
that they can't collect or they're

00:20:24.559 --> 00:20:27.176
they're facing difficulties, but I think

00:20:27.200 --> 00:20:28.696
it's something we need to turn our mind

00:20:28.720 --> 00:20:30.376
to because while some of our public

00:20:30.400 --> 00:20:32.296
transport services have improved,

00:20:32.320 --> 00:20:34.535
they're not at the point where most

00:20:34.559 --> 00:20:36.696
people who can afford to have their own

00:20:36.720 --> 00:20:39.720
car  will feel that they can do

00:20:39.840 --> 00:20:42.840
without a car.  the public transport

00:20:43.039 --> 00:20:45.176
in the city needs to be much better

00:20:45.200 --> 00:20:47.655
before that will happen. So, I guess I'm

00:20:47.679 --> 00:20:49.576
just flagging that that's an issue that

00:20:49.600 --> 00:20:51.976
for the future. Um, I did think one of

00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:53.816
the really good things with the guide is

00:20:53.840 --> 00:20:56.216
a series of templates. So, it's really

00:20:56.240 --> 00:20:59.240
easy really easy easy for um someone

00:20:59.679 --> 00:21:02.535
planning on designing  a develop new

00:21:02.559 --> 00:21:04.775
development to work through all that and

00:21:04.799 --> 00:21:07.655
same with the demolition. So, thank you.

00:21:07.679 --> 00:21:10.056
Thank you, Council Willis.  further

00:21:10.080 --> 00:21:12.376
speakers on this item?

00:21:12.400 --> 00:21:13.655
There's no further discussion, we'll put

00:21:13.679 --> 00:21:15.655
the motion. All those in favor, that's

00:21:15.679 --> 00:21:17.576
unanimous and carried. The next item is

00:21:17.600 --> 00:21:20.600
8.3, which the is the Nelly Hamilton

00:21:20.799 --> 00:21:23.256
Center options review report. We have a

00:21:23.280 --> 00:21:24.775
mover, councelor Wilson, and a second to

00:21:24.799 --> 00:21:27.336
councelor MacDonald. Councelor Wilson.

00:21:27.360 --> 00:21:29.895
 thank you, mayor. I just commend 

00:21:29.919 --> 00:21:32.696
the report to  to the public and you

00:21:32.720 --> 00:21:34.535
can read through why the the

00:21:34.559 --> 00:21:36.456
recommendation is to go with endorse

00:21:36.480 --> 00:21:39.480
option five which is to actually  keep

00:21:39.760 --> 00:21:41.736
operating as is but actually take make a

00:21:41.760 --> 00:21:43.576
downward payment when our next  loan

00:21:43.600 --> 00:21:45.816
comes up for review of $5 million if

00:21:45.840 --> 00:21:47.336
we're in the position cash position to

00:21:47.360 --> 00:21:50.360
do so which we predict we will be. Um,

00:21:50.720 --> 00:21:52.456
this has been I think this has been a

00:21:52.480 --> 00:21:54.216
net as as I've said before and I think

00:21:54.240 --> 00:21:56.216
this report makes this point again. This

00:21:56.240 --> 00:21:58.135
center has been a net net win I think

00:21:58.159 --> 00:22:00.216
for the community. It has helped in in

00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:02.456
Vive in this area. , and when we see

00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:03.976
the other developments built, it'll do

00:22:04.000 --> 00:22:07.000
so even more. , but it was not cheap.

00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:09.736
Um, , we're on the hook. , we've got

00:22:09.760 --> 00:22:10.936
a couple of lease agreements that are

00:22:10.960 --> 00:22:12.296
running a long time and they're going to

00:22:12.320 --> 00:22:14.456
take time to come to fruition and start

00:22:14.480 --> 00:22:17.096
, being a benefit. So, but I think on

00:22:17.120 --> 00:22:19.416
on on net as you can read,  it was a

00:22:19.440 --> 00:22:20.616
benefit. So, happy to move the

00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:22.456
recommendation as is and pay down debt

00:22:22.480 --> 00:22:24.056
when we're available to. Thank you.

00:22:24.080 --> 00:22:25.816
Thank you, Council Wilson. Councelor

00:22:25.840 --> 00:22:27.015
MacDonald.

00:22:27.039 --> 00:22:30.039
In seconding the  the motion, I'm not

00:22:30.080 --> 00:22:33.080
sure I'd describe it as a outright net.

00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:36.135
It might be marginal and probably es and

00:22:36.159 --> 00:22:38.616
flows particularly when we are making

00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:40.696
very tough decisions with respect to

00:22:40.720 --> 00:22:42.696
this building which were not anticipated

00:22:42.720 --> 00:22:45.720
at the time because it is or has sort of

00:22:45.919 --> 00:22:48.056
become through circumstances frankly

00:22:48.080 --> 00:22:50.936
which have not been  council's own

00:22:50.960 --> 00:22:53.960
making the Nelly Hamilton white elephant

00:22:54.960 --> 00:22:56.936
 of Guamian and it's and it's a

00:22:56.960 --> 00:22:59.960
difficult pill to swallow. Um the world

00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:02.696
changed post business case. The world

00:23:02.720 --> 00:23:05.720
changed  and it meant that  what

00:23:06.080 --> 00:23:09.080
otherwise was a premium of  a premium

00:23:10.720 --> 00:23:13.720
setting  was no longer desirable by

00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:17.000
private firms and by government  with

00:23:17.360 --> 00:23:19.736
respect to um the prevalence of  of

00:23:19.760 --> 00:23:21.816
working from home etc. And obviously

00:23:21.840 --> 00:23:24.056
with the with the pressures  which

00:23:24.080 --> 00:23:26.535
arose from co I should hasten to add but

00:23:26.559 --> 00:23:28.456
um recent pressures which are driving

00:23:28.480 --> 00:23:31.480
more of that behavior means  um office

00:23:31.679 --> 00:23:34.056
accommodations are less desirable. So we

00:23:34.080 --> 00:23:36.856
have are making some really really tough

00:23:36.880 --> 00:23:39.880
 tough calls. Um notwithstanding we we

00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:42.936
we are here to make tough goals and we

00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:45.416
and we must make tough decisions and

00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:48.440
decisions which are on balance um not

00:23:48.880 --> 00:23:51.096
necessarily net  but on balance I

00:23:51.120 --> 00:23:53.256
think in the in the in the best

00:23:53.280 --> 00:23:56.280
interests of  of our community. Um one

00:23:57.120 --> 00:24:00.120
aspect of um of  of option five um

00:24:02.159 --> 00:24:05.159
which I thought I should interrogate is

00:24:05.360 --> 00:24:08.360
the question of  in-house versus

00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:11.400
external management. Um

00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:13.895
this may be a question which might need

00:24:13.919 --> 00:24:16.535
to be taken on notice, but is there a

00:24:16.559 --> 00:24:19.559
member member a staff a staff member

00:24:20.400 --> 00:24:23.400
resident  who would have um either a

00:24:24.880 --> 00:24:27.880
um I think it is a diploma or of of

00:24:28.080 --> 00:24:29.976
property management or some diploma of

00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:33.000
property or a certificate for in um in

00:24:34.080 --> 00:24:37.080
real estate.

00:24:37.520 --> 00:24:40.135
Miss Gour.

00:24:40.159 --> 00:24:42.456
Um I would defer to my colleague, Mr.

00:24:42.480 --> 00:24:45.015
Frian, the asset manager.

00:24:45.039 --> 00:24:48.039
Yeah. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um so,

00:24:50.159 --> 00:24:51.015
thank you.

00:24:51.039 --> 00:24:54.039
We're  currently undertaking what all

00:24:54.640 --> 00:24:56.936
the requirements would  be required to

00:24:56.960 --> 00:24:59.416
do that internally and comparing that

00:24:59.440 --> 00:25:02.376
with the external options.  we haven't

00:25:02.400 --> 00:25:05.400
um identified the diploma or foreign

00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:07.736
real estate as a requirement of that

00:25:07.760 --> 00:25:10.760
activity.  partially the  the the

00:25:12.480 --> 00:25:14.616
responsibilities are are being

00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:17.640
identified at the moment but what is 

00:25:17.760 --> 00:25:19.816
perceived is about how you minimize

00:25:19.840 --> 00:25:22.696
revenue leakage um and also about

00:25:22.720 --> 00:25:24.936
maximizing your potential return. So

00:25:24.960 --> 00:25:27.736
some of that is about more related to

00:25:27.760 --> 00:25:29.336
contract management rather than

00:25:29.360 --> 00:25:31.895
necessarily going out and undertaking

00:25:31.919 --> 00:25:34.919
leases etc.

00:25:35.840 --> 00:25:37.576
Sorry and yeah look I appreciate that

00:25:37.600 --> 00:25:39.816
answer from Mr. Rick and I I I

00:25:39.840 --> 00:25:42.840
absolutely have no   no doubt about

00:25:43.039 --> 00:25:46.039
his  long experience in asset

00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:48.376
management and understand that we're not

00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:51.255
talking singularly about a  you know a

00:25:51.279 --> 00:25:54.279
piece of real estate um and rather that

00:25:54.640 --> 00:25:57.640
it is an asset though um we are in a

00:25:58.320 --> 00:26:00.616
very competitive market. So we have the

00:26:00.640 --> 00:26:03.576
the the duality of considering  this

00:26:03.600 --> 00:26:06.600
within a a an asset and all the all the

00:26:07.360 --> 00:26:10.296
ubiquitous principles which I presume

00:26:10.320 --> 00:26:12.696
apply across the the the you know the

00:26:12.720 --> 00:26:15.176
course of asset management.  and then

00:26:15.200 --> 00:26:18.200
how we market and  and  and best um

00:26:19.919 --> 00:26:22.919
attract into this. I obviously you know

00:26:23.039 --> 00:26:24.616
want my haircut. I don't go to the

00:26:24.640 --> 00:26:27.416
mechanic. Um you know I I I trust

00:26:27.440 --> 00:26:30.440
experts. I trust the expertise of  of

00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:33.096
of of  our asset management team. It

00:26:33.120 --> 00:26:35.015
is however that that crunchier thing

00:26:35.039 --> 00:26:36.535
where I think we really need to double

00:26:36.559 --> 00:26:38.696
down and get smart on so as that this

00:26:38.720 --> 00:26:41.416
building  can  we can provide the

00:26:41.440 --> 00:26:43.336
confidence to the community that we are

00:26:43.360 --> 00:26:46.135
making this building work for them.

00:26:46.159 --> 00:26:47.895
Thank you, Council MacDonald. Councelor

00:26:47.919 --> 00:26:49.496
Preston.

00:26:49.520 --> 00:26:51.496
 thank you, Mayor. And I'd also like

00:26:51.520 --> 00:26:54.056
to thank staff for  the work that's

00:26:54.080 --> 00:26:56.696
gone into this. Um this report has been

00:26:56.720 --> 00:26:59.720
a  a a while in coming. It's something

00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:03.000
that I had asked for I think up to

00:27:03.120 --> 00:27:03.895
two years

00:27:03.919 --> 00:27:06.919
three years ago. Um perhaps even more.

00:27:07.279 --> 00:27:09.816
Um and I do understand why there was a

00:27:09.840 --> 00:27:12.376
delay and that was to allow um us to

00:27:12.400 --> 00:27:15.015
better understand um the betting in of

00:27:15.039 --> 00:27:17.976
success or otherwise of the building. Um

00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:21.000
but from my perspective um I'm I'm still

00:27:22.080 --> 00:27:24.056
 I still think there's not sufficient

00:27:24.080 --> 00:27:27.015
detail um in the analysis here for for

00:27:27.039 --> 00:27:30.039
us to  to  necessarily endorse the

00:27:30.880 --> 00:27:33.736
option that's that's that's um that's

00:27:33.760 --> 00:27:36.760
before us. Um that said, I have a series

00:27:36.799 --> 00:27:39.416
of questions I would like to to answer.

00:27:39.440 --> 00:27:42.135
Um some of which I'm happy for to be

00:27:42.159 --> 00:27:44.936
taken on notice. Um but if they were to

00:27:44.960 --> 00:27:47.336
be taken on notice then I suspect I'd be

00:27:47.360 --> 00:27:50.360
inclined to  look for a u an amendment

00:27:50.559 --> 00:27:53.559
to  defer um point two on the u on the

00:27:55.760 --> 00:27:58.216
on the the recommendation before us. So

00:27:58.240 --> 00:27:59.976
I'll go ahead with the questions if I

00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:03.000
may. Um could we do we know the current

00:28:03.600 --> 00:28:05.576
return on investment that council

00:28:05.600 --> 00:28:08.600
receives from this building?

00:28:10.720 --> 00:28:13.720
 through you Mr. Mayor. Um so  due

00:28:13.919 --> 00:28:15.496
to the structure of the way things were

00:28:15.520 --> 00:28:17.816
done um we don't have an initial

00:28:17.840 --> 00:28:19.576
investment amount to work out a return

00:28:19.600 --> 00:28:21.895
on investment but what we have done is

00:28:21.919 --> 00:28:24.919
looked at what is the  discounted cash

00:28:24.960 --> 00:28:27.960
flows  going forward for  a couple

00:28:28.480 --> 00:28:30.535
of options. What is the discounted cash

00:28:30.559 --> 00:28:32.135
flow on the interest payments being

00:28:32.159 --> 00:28:34.775
made?  what would the discounted cash

00:28:34.799 --> 00:28:37.799
flow be on  if we had to make rental

00:28:38.399 --> 00:28:41.096
 payments instead?  and so to just

00:28:41.120 --> 00:28:44.120
give you a a um

00:28:45.440 --> 00:28:46.696
the idea between the difference between

00:28:46.720 --> 00:28:48.696
the two both are negative numbers,

00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:50.936
right? So  looking at the discount

00:28:50.960 --> 00:28:53.960
cash flows  over 20 years for interest

00:28:54.159 --> 00:28:56.535
payments, it would be negative  26

00:28:56.559 --> 00:28:59.559
million in MPV terms. For rental

00:28:59.600 --> 00:29:01.655
payments, if we were having to pay rent

00:29:01.679 --> 00:29:04.456
for this area instead, it's negative 29

00:29:04.480 --> 00:29:07.480
million MPV. Right? So, so broadly, all

00:29:07.840 --> 00:29:10.375
right, it's we're the council's in a

00:29:10.399 --> 00:29:12.936
slightly better off position  by

00:29:12.960 --> 00:29:15.736
paying interest  rather than going to

00:29:15.760 --> 00:29:17.336
market and paying rent.

00:29:17.360 --> 00:29:19.496
Okay. So, that Yeah, that's the

00:29:19.520 --> 00:29:22.296
assumption. It's 450 a square meter. Is

00:29:22.320 --> 00:29:23.336
that

00:29:23.360 --> 00:29:25.736
Yes. With a 3% escalation,

00:29:25.760 --> 00:29:28.616
right? Okay. Um and that's that's taking

00:29:28.640 --> 00:29:31.336
into account the paying down of

00:29:31.360 --> 00:29:33.816
somewhere between 39 and 52 million on

00:29:33.840 --> 00:29:35.655
the sump. No, no, that that's a separate

00:29:35.679 --> 00:29:38.375
element. So,  that's actually a a

00:29:38.399 --> 00:29:41.336
worse negative outcome and partially

00:29:41.360 --> 00:29:44.360
that's because you have to  still make

00:29:44.720 --> 00:29:47.015
 interest payments on some of the loan

00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:49.976
while also paying  rent  elements.

00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:53.000
That ends up being a negative 77 million

00:29:53.279 --> 00:29:54.296
NPV.

00:29:54.320 --> 00:29:57.320
Right. Okay. Thank you. Um just building

00:29:57.440 --> 00:30:00.440
on  council MacDonald's um question,

00:30:01.600 --> 00:30:03.255
how how does strengthening the internal

00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:05.096
property management capability provide a

00:30:05.120 --> 00:30:07.336
better return to council? Um and how has

00:30:07.360 --> 00:30:09.015
this been quantified?

00:30:09.039 --> 00:30:11.655
Yeah. So we're um I think in the report

00:30:11.679 --> 00:30:13.096
we were saying we're still going through

00:30:13.120 --> 00:30:16.120
that process.  so we think that there

00:30:16.240 --> 00:30:19.240
are  six six areas where where where

00:30:20.559 --> 00:30:22.535
it's important. So the first one is

00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:25.559
about um  making sure that we reduce

00:30:26.320 --> 00:30:28.535
any potential revenue leakage i.e. we're

00:30:28.559 --> 00:30:30.456
recovering all the costs that we are

00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:33.015
supposed to be recovering from any 

00:30:33.039 --> 00:30:35.816
tenants  within the  building and

00:30:35.840 --> 00:30:37.816
that's not just this building it's the

00:30:37.840 --> 00:30:40.135
actual entire property portfolio. The

00:30:40.159 --> 00:30:42.296
second one is to maximize  potential

00:30:42.320 --> 00:30:44.775
revenue for underutilized assets. So

00:30:44.799 --> 00:30:47.799
that is either through leasing  you

00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:50.456
know spare space or through disposing or

00:30:50.480 --> 00:30:52.296
sale of those assets.

00:30:52.320 --> 00:30:54.456
The third area is ensuring that 

00:30:54.480 --> 00:30:55.976
council's obligations as a model

00:30:56.000 --> 00:30:58.056
landlord are met by undertaking

00:30:58.080 --> 00:30:59.736
appropriate maintenance so that we're

00:30:59.760 --> 00:31:00.856
doing everything that we're supposed to

00:31:00.880 --> 00:31:02.936
be doing.

00:31:02.960 --> 00:31:05.960
 the next one is around  man making

00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:08.375
sure that the risks from the property

00:31:08.399 --> 00:31:10.135
portfolio are understood and

00:31:10.159 --> 00:31:12.375
appropriately mitigated.  especially

00:31:12.399 --> 00:31:14.135
with regards to things like unoccupied

00:31:14.159 --> 00:31:15.816
buildings, making sure that we've got

00:31:15.840 --> 00:31:18.840
those  um  we have those actually

00:31:20.320 --> 00:31:23.320
managed and and  the appropriate

00:31:23.919 --> 00:31:26.296
security and  maintenance through

00:31:26.320 --> 00:31:29.320
them. And  then finally  through the

00:31:30.240 --> 00:31:33.240
true cost of property um being provided.

00:31:33.360 --> 00:31:36.360
So when you're  leasing out um areas

00:31:36.640 --> 00:31:39.640
or spaces at peppercorn rates  it is

00:31:40.159 --> 00:31:41.655
making sure that you understand what is

00:31:41.679 --> 00:31:44.056
the cost to the council of that space

00:31:44.080 --> 00:31:47.080
being provided.  not to change your 

00:31:47.519 --> 00:31:49.096
not to say you can't do whatever you're

00:31:49.120 --> 00:31:50.375
doing but so that you understand what

00:31:50.399 --> 00:31:52.056
the financial impact of the decisions

00:31:52.080 --> 00:31:54.456
that you are making.

00:31:54.480 --> 00:31:57.416
Thank you. Um, councelor Wilson made the

00:31:57.440 --> 00:31:59.976
point that  the building had has

00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:02.775
enlivened the area but and in the

00:32:02.799 --> 00:32:04.856
community objectives outlined in the

00:32:04.880 --> 00:32:07.736
original business case um what evidence

00:32:07.760 --> 00:32:09.736
is there that that we've looked at to

00:32:09.760 --> 00:32:12.375
show that one two four and five in in

00:32:12.399 --> 00:32:13.976
the  in the business case and I'm

00:32:14.000 --> 00:32:17.000
happy to elucidate them um have actually

00:32:17.760 --> 00:32:20.135
been um been met. So one one was a

00:32:20.159 --> 00:32:21.495
perception on identity. There was a

00:32:21.519 --> 00:32:23.096
negative perception of the CBD

00:32:23.120 --> 00:32:25.096
discouraging patronage and investment

00:32:25.120 --> 00:32:27.176
resulting in the CBD not having a clear

00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:28.775
identity and no development. What

00:32:28.799 --> 00:32:30.216
evidence do we have that this that's

00:32:30.240 --> 00:32:32.056
changed?

00:32:32.080 --> 00:32:35.080
 yeah um through you Mr. So  it's

00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:38.456
fair to say that looking at the package

00:32:38.480 --> 00:32:40.936
and investment in CBD and escaped

00:32:40.960 --> 00:32:43.576
expenditure decreasing hasn't yet been

00:32:43.600 --> 00:32:46.600
measured.  we have looked at 

00:32:46.960 --> 00:32:49.176
additional conferences  and there are

00:32:49.200 --> 00:32:51.736
examples with currently LG New South

00:32:51.760 --> 00:32:53.416
Wales  water management conferences

00:32:53.440 --> 00:32:55.976
being booked for 2027. There's also been

00:32:56.000 --> 00:32:57.816
research looking at what's happened to

00:32:57.840 --> 00:33:00.840
the Q and the B  and  they've had 

00:33:01.600 --> 00:33:04.600
peak um attendances  since the nearly

00:33:05.760 --> 00:33:07.655
Hamilton Center has opened. 

00:33:07.679 --> 00:33:10.679
additionally  we've had  high 

00:33:11.519 --> 00:33:13.255
attendancies for things like the

00:33:13.279 --> 00:33:15.816
multicultural festival that have you

00:33:15.840 --> 00:33:17.576
know indicated again growth in those

00:33:17.600 --> 00:33:20.600
areas. So  when this was reviewed it

00:33:20.960 --> 00:33:23.960
was um  that you know they came to the

00:33:24.240 --> 00:33:26.135
conclusion that there is evidence that

00:33:26.159 --> 00:33:27.736
there has been an increase in the CBD

00:33:27.760 --> 00:33:29.255
area.

00:33:29.279 --> 00:33:31.816
Yeah. Thank you. And again building on

00:33:31.840 --> 00:33:34.056
 on comments that councelor MacDonald

00:33:34.080 --> 00:33:35.416
has made, there were a lot of external

00:33:35.440 --> 00:33:37.255
factors that impacted the performance of

00:33:37.279 --> 00:33:40.279
of the the nearly Hamilton Center as an

00:33:40.799 --> 00:33:42.696
investment for council that were not

00:33:42.720 --> 00:33:44.456
anticipated during the original business

00:33:44.480 --> 00:33:47.480
case. Um what did we have to look at and

00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:48.936
what's happened?

00:33:48.960 --> 00:33:51.736
Yeah. So  through you  Mr. Mayor,

00:33:51.760 --> 00:33:54.216
there are three key areas that we 

00:33:54.240 --> 00:33:56.936
sort of highlighted as as concerns. So

00:33:56.960 --> 00:33:59.960
one is that the cost of building  has

00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:02.696
 was increased   and there were

00:34:02.720 --> 00:34:04.696
construction delays of 12 to 18 months

00:34:04.720 --> 00:34:07.176
as a result of COVID. So if you remember

00:34:07.200 --> 00:34:09.016
the cost of construction before COVID

00:34:09.040 --> 00:34:10.776
was significantly different to what it

00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:12.696
was afterwards.

00:34:12.720 --> 00:34:14.696
 the cost of debt financing

00:34:14.720 --> 00:34:16.456
significantly increased over that

00:34:16.480 --> 00:34:18.216
period. So the business case was set at

00:34:18.240 --> 00:34:21.016
2.3 to 2.5%.

00:34:21.040 --> 00:34:23.575
 the initial loans that we got 

00:34:23.599 --> 00:34:25.895
started at 2.55.

00:34:25.919 --> 00:34:28.919
 then increased to 4.47 and then 5.92

00:34:29.359 --> 00:34:32.359
for the majority of the den and then 

00:34:32.639 --> 00:34:35.095
the the third point I think is  in

00:34:35.119 --> 00:34:37.895
relation to um  a point that was

00:34:37.919 --> 00:34:39.416
discussed earlier which is the ability

00:34:39.440 --> 00:34:41.256
to attract tenency because as a result

00:34:41.280 --> 00:34:43.815
of the change in  higher work from

00:34:43.839 --> 00:34:45.895
home elements through that processes. So

00:34:45.919 --> 00:34:48.615
all of those three external elements

00:34:48.639 --> 00:34:51.575
which were outside of council's um

00:34:51.599 --> 00:34:54.599
ability to control  had an influence

00:34:54.639 --> 00:34:57.639
on  this project.

00:34:57.680 --> 00:34:58.936
Thank you very much. On the basis of

00:34:58.960 --> 00:35:01.960
that I I won't put the amendment up.

00:35:03.440 --> 00:35:06.055
Okay. Thank you. Councelor question

00:35:06.079 --> 00:35:09.079
councelor MacDonald.

00:35:09.280 --> 00:35:12.280
Um I I I have a question which probably

00:35:13.280 --> 00:35:14.776
sounds a little ludicrous although it's

00:35:14.800 --> 00:35:17.736
put to me by a um a very esteemed

00:35:17.760 --> 00:35:19.416
surgeon, a very bright guy in our

00:35:19.440 --> 00:35:22.440
region. And he said, "Have you thought

00:35:22.800 --> 00:35:25.416
 he's a surgeon, remember, not a real

00:35:25.440 --> 00:35:27.575
estate guy.  have you thought about

00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:30.599
your building and um considering the the

00:35:31.839 --> 00:35:34.839
shift in um in what building tenency

00:35:36.800 --> 00:35:39.800
requirements are from office to

00:35:40.240 --> 00:35:42.376
principally residential?

00:35:42.400 --> 00:35:45.400
Is there capacity to make  make

00:35:45.920 --> 00:35:48.296
alterations substantial alterations to

00:35:48.320 --> 00:35:51.320
the building to accommodate in a quasi

00:35:51.760 --> 00:35:53.896
residential manner and whether that's

00:35:53.920 --> 00:35:56.920
something that that staff have even been

00:35:56.960 --> 00:35:59.815
able to consider?

00:35:59.839 --> 00:36:01.095
I think we might need to say that on

00:36:01.119 --> 00:36:04.119
notice, Mr. Mayor.

00:36:04.640 --> 00:36:06.216
So I I think we'll need to take the

00:36:06.240 --> 00:36:07.176
question on notice.

00:36:07.200 --> 00:36:08.856
Yeah, we'll take that on notice. Okay.

00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:10.296
So we got councelor Broadbent and

00:36:10.320 --> 00:36:11.815
Councelor Willis. Councelor Broadbent

00:36:11.839 --> 00:36:12.936
next.

00:36:12.960 --> 00:36:15.960
 yeah. So I I guess as it sits at the

00:36:16.720 --> 00:36:18.616
moment um I won't be supporting this

00:36:18.640 --> 00:36:21.095
motion and not withstanding everything

00:36:21.119 --> 00:36:22.376
that's been said by my fellow

00:36:22.400 --> 00:36:25.016
counselors, I I do think um councelor

00:36:25.040 --> 00:36:28.040
Preston  in his um comments there

00:36:28.320 --> 00:36:30.136
actually highlighted what I think is

00:36:30.160 --> 00:36:32.136
some flaws in the case that's being

00:36:32.160 --> 00:36:35.160
presented in front of us.  what I

00:36:35.280 --> 00:36:38.280
understand um that MPV obviously isn't

00:36:38.480 --> 00:36:40.456
everything. It's one of the famous flaws

00:36:40.480 --> 00:36:43.016
um you go you look for an MPV you go eh

00:36:43.040 --> 00:36:46.040
and that's a decision figure um

00:36:46.800 --> 00:36:48.776
in front of us we haven't got MPV

00:36:48.800 --> 00:36:51.095
options across the whole spectrum  of

00:36:51.119 --> 00:36:53.496
of the options and whilst that's

00:36:53.520 --> 00:36:55.256
obviously as I said it's not everything

00:36:55.280 --> 00:36:57.095
um it is disappointing to see that we

00:36:57.119 --> 00:36:58.696
haven't got that and it does make me

00:36:58.720 --> 00:37:01.176
wonder whether that was because we we

00:37:01.200 --> 00:37:04.200
didn't have the inputs um so I guess

00:37:04.640 --> 00:37:07.095
yeah from from that perspective

00:37:07.119 --> 00:37:09.095
I don't I hesitate to just vote this

00:37:09.119 --> 00:37:12.119
down. Um, and if councelor Preston you

00:37:12.240 --> 00:37:13.736
happen to have a pre-prepared amendment,

00:37:13.760 --> 00:37:15.656
I would appreciate um that. But

00:37:15.680 --> 00:37:17.575
otherwise, um, I would like to move an

00:37:17.599 --> 00:37:20.599
amendment, Mr. Mayor.

00:37:20.720 --> 00:37:23.416
Okay. You have it ready?

00:37:23.440 --> 00:37:25.815
, I would like to just move that

00:37:25.839 --> 00:37:28.216
option two be defer endorsement of the

00:37:28.240 --> 00:37:29.095
options.

00:37:29.119 --> 00:37:30.456
Not option two.

00:37:30.480 --> 00:37:33.480
Oh, sorry. Sorry. Um, item two. um defer

00:37:35.040 --> 00:37:36.616
endorsement of options until we receive

00:37:36.640 --> 00:37:39.640
a more detailed report.

00:37:42.160 --> 00:37:45.095
So it's one stays the same

00:37:45.119 --> 00:37:46.696
and then

00:37:46.720 --> 00:37:49.720
council.

00:37:51.040 --> 00:37:54.040
Okay. Do we have a second?

00:37:54.400 --> 00:37:57.400
Council Waterhouse Council Broadbeending

00:38:04.320 --> 00:38:04.856
further.

00:38:04.880 --> 00:38:05.736
Yeah. Be deferred.

00:38:05.760 --> 00:38:07.256
Elite number two.

00:38:07.280 --> 00:38:09.176
But the idea is seeing is we we want to

00:38:09.200 --> 00:38:11.416
receive a more detailed report. So

00:38:11.440 --> 00:38:12.696
deferred

00:38:12.720 --> 00:38:14.376
until we receive the more detailed

00:38:14.400 --> 00:38:16.136
receive more detailed report.

00:38:16.160 --> 00:38:19.160
Yeah.

00:38:20.480 --> 00:38:22.216
Councelor Broadin.

00:38:22.240 --> 00:38:24.696
Thank you. I'm I'm very comfortable that

00:38:24.720 --> 00:38:26.616
um staff have got what I'm trying to get

00:38:26.640 --> 00:38:29.095
at. But essentially the idea here is 

00:38:29.119 --> 00:38:31.496
in front of us um we have a whole bunch

00:38:31.520 --> 00:38:34.520
of I guess  assessment considerations

00:38:34.960 --> 00:38:36.936
or factors that were looked at as part

00:38:36.960 --> 00:38:38.936
of this report. Um but within those

00:38:38.960 --> 00:38:40.456
assessment factors um which was

00:38:40.480 --> 00:38:42.296
highlighted by council MacDonald and and

00:38:42.320 --> 00:38:44.936
councelor Preston there is some gaps. Um

00:38:44.960 --> 00:38:46.936
so we took there's the property

00:38:46.960 --> 00:38:48.456
management and the costs and

00:38:48.480 --> 00:38:50.376
implications of that have not been

00:38:50.400 --> 00:38:53.400
considered. um the risk of u considering

00:38:53.599 --> 00:38:56.456
property management um in terms of you

00:38:56.480 --> 00:38:57.896
know how long it's going to take for

00:38:57.920 --> 00:39:00.456
staff to get up to speed um what the

00:39:00.480 --> 00:39:02.696
education requirements are um you know

00:39:02.720 --> 00:39:03.815
those kind of things I'm assuming

00:39:03.839 --> 00:39:05.256
there's probably impacts on insurance

00:39:05.280 --> 00:39:07.815
considerations all sorts of stuff um we

00:39:07.839 --> 00:39:09.095
don't know I can't so I can't tell you

00:39:09.119 --> 00:39:10.055
because we don't know because it's not

00:39:10.079 --> 00:39:13.079
in the report um I do you know we have I

00:39:15.200 --> 00:39:18.200
guess the some of the figures that was

00:39:18.320 --> 00:39:21.320
um mentioned earlier I didn't speak to

00:39:21.440 --> 00:39:24.440
me um I guess in a in a strong manner.

00:39:25.200 --> 00:39:27.575
So because the initial assuming we we

00:39:27.599 --> 00:39:29.496
were to sell the property today for 33

00:39:29.520 --> 00:39:31.496
million in accordance with the the paper

00:39:31.520 --> 00:39:33.896
in front of us, we have loans of  80

00:39:33.920 --> 00:39:35.176
million that would give us a real

00:39:35.200 --> 00:39:37.575
outstanding PV for the property not

00:39:37.599 --> 00:39:39.496
including um us paying rent which would

00:39:39.520 --> 00:39:42.216
make it more negative of 40 million if

00:39:42.240 --> 00:39:45.240
I'm not mistaken. So I I guess um you

00:39:46.240 --> 00:39:48.696
know I'm I'm not an expert but I do I do

00:39:48.720 --> 00:39:50.456
think having those figures in front of

00:39:50.480 --> 00:39:52.296
us um in terms of net present value for

00:39:52.320 --> 00:39:55.320
the entire um cash flow  in perpetuity

00:39:56.079 --> 00:39:57.815
for the building whether it's us renting

00:39:57.839 --> 00:39:59.815
I guess essentially for all the options

00:39:59.839 --> 00:40:01.176
 we've clearly got the staff that have

00:40:01.200 --> 00:40:03.256
the talent to do that um with Mr.

00:40:03.280 --> 00:40:06.055
Fricker  I I really think it's

00:40:06.079 --> 00:40:08.055
essential and for me I can't support a

00:40:08.079 --> 00:40:10.616
motion the previous motion um with with

00:40:10.640 --> 00:40:12.776
the report in front of us. I'll put the

00:40:12.800 --> 00:40:15.016
 this motion to to you all.

00:40:15.040 --> 00:40:16.376
Okay. Councelor Broadman. Councelor

00:40:16.400 --> 00:40:18.136
Waterhouse.

00:40:18.160 --> 00:40:19.976
No, I second it in order to hear the

00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:21.496
arguments. I'd be really interested to

00:40:21.520 --> 00:40:24.520
hear any more.

00:40:25.520 --> 00:40:27.896
All right. Speakers on the amendment.

00:40:27.920 --> 00:40:30.536
Councelor Wilson.

00:40:30.560 --> 00:40:32.536
I'll  use some of my summing up notes

00:40:32.560 --> 00:40:35.560
to speak against the amendment. Um

00:40:36.079 --> 00:40:38.136
I I see where you're coming from.  but

00:40:38.160 --> 00:40:39.656
we've already heard we have to just step

00:40:39.680 --> 00:40:41.575
back and see what we're doing here. Um,

00:40:41.599 --> 00:40:44.599
I think  we're putting aside the net

00:40:44.880 --> 00:40:46.696
loss of 40 million of Sony building. So,

00:40:46.720 --> 00:40:47.896
we all agree we're not going to sell the

00:40:47.920 --> 00:40:50.216
building. , that's for sure. So, what

00:40:50.240 --> 00:40:51.496
what are we deferring to decide there?

00:40:51.520 --> 00:40:53.256
We're going to take a $40 million bath

00:40:53.280 --> 00:40:54.776
and then pay the principal and interest

00:40:54.800 --> 00:40:57.800
and then um have to pay rent for 25

00:40:58.000 --> 00:40:59.496
years. So, that's not going to happen. I

00:40:59.520 --> 00:41:01.736
can't see anyone making that argument,

00:41:01.760 --> 00:41:03.976
let alone the human impact of  we'd

00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:05.896
have to find someone to buy the building

00:41:05.920 --> 00:41:07.176
 that would actually have us as a

00:41:07.200 --> 00:41:08.536
tenant and then they'd be able to

00:41:08.560 --> 00:41:09.575
because we wouldn't want to move

00:41:09.599 --> 00:41:11.335
everyone that we'd have a pretty good 

00:41:11.359 --> 00:41:14.359
negotiating position post sale  to to

00:41:14.960 --> 00:41:17.575
charge us what we need. So it is we are

00:41:17.599 --> 00:41:19.575
where we are.  would we have done the

00:41:19.599 --> 00:41:22.055
same sales size? No. As we've heard from

00:41:22.079 --> 00:41:24.616
staff, we've had building costs were

00:41:24.640 --> 00:41:27.335
misassumed. Is that even a word?  you

00:41:27.359 --> 00:41:30.295
know interest rates grew, office space

00:41:30.319 --> 00:41:33.319
demand  went back  but as I said and

00:41:34.800 --> 00:41:36.536
maybe I was a little bit  verbose with

00:41:36.560 --> 00:41:39.560
my net a very fine net might be that net

00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:42.376
net thing. One quick comment about

00:41:42.400 --> 00:41:44.856
property management um any public

00:41:44.880 --> 00:41:46.936
servants in the building  yeah if you

00:41:46.960 --> 00:41:48.456
deal with property managers everything's

00:41:48.480 --> 00:41:50.055
outsourced at arms length it's hard to

00:41:50.079 --> 00:41:52.136
get anything done. I as a tenant would

00:41:52.160 --> 00:41:54.696
much prefer  if my landlord looks

00:41:54.720 --> 00:41:57.016
after my particular lease. So I don't

00:41:57.040 --> 00:41:58.696
need to defer to think that I don't want

00:41:58.720 --> 00:42:00.536
that outsourced. I prefer to have staff

00:42:00.560 --> 00:42:03.095
inhouse and I as counselor if someone

00:42:03.119 --> 00:42:04.856
has an issue with a with a lease I can

00:42:04.880 --> 00:42:06.856
talk I can talk to the GM. The GM can

00:42:06.880 --> 00:42:09.416
manage that. So I can't see I think

00:42:09.440 --> 00:42:10.936
there's actually been some and councelor

00:42:10.960 --> 00:42:12.136
Preston congratulations on your

00:42:12.160 --> 00:42:14.376
questioning. It was excellent and

00:42:14.400 --> 00:42:16.055
answered some of my questions as well.

00:42:16.079 --> 00:42:19.079
 but I can't see any reason why we um

00:42:19.440 --> 00:42:21.656
defer this. If you know 6 12 months

00:42:21.680 --> 00:42:23.095
comes back and things change and the

00:42:23.119 --> 00:42:24.616
market picks up or whatever, you can

00:42:24.640 --> 00:42:25.736
bring this forward as a notice motion

00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:27.176
anytime. Thank you. Sorry, mayor. Thank

00:42:27.200 --> 00:42:30.136
you, Council Wilson. Councelor Willis.

00:42:30.160 --> 00:42:33.160
 thank you. Um I I won't support the

00:42:34.079 --> 00:42:37.079
amendment um for a couple of reasons. Um

00:42:38.640 --> 00:42:41.416
when the idea of  having receiving

00:42:41.440 --> 00:42:44.440
this report arose, I said I didn't think

00:42:45.440 --> 00:42:48.440
it would  elicit

00:42:48.480 --> 00:42:51.480
um  the a real option to sell the

00:42:52.160 --> 00:42:55.016
building because a whole lot of things

00:42:55.040 --> 00:42:58.040
had happened, some of which had  have

00:42:58.160 --> 00:43:01.160
impacted the um the cost to build it. Um

00:43:03.760 --> 00:43:06.616
and I think this report shows that's

00:43:06.640 --> 00:43:07.656
true.

00:43:07.680 --> 00:43:10.680
 the the the commercial property

00:43:11.359 --> 00:43:14.359
market  has gone in a hole and I I'm

00:43:17.119 --> 00:43:19.335
not a real estate agent but I do watch

00:43:19.359 --> 00:43:21.896
financial news quite closely. I can't

00:43:21.920 --> 00:43:24.456
see anything on the near horizon to

00:43:24.480 --> 00:43:26.936
indicate that's going to change. Um

00:43:26.960 --> 00:43:29.416
we're in the middle of a fuel crisis and

00:43:29.440 --> 00:43:31.176
one of the mitigation measures that

00:43:31.200 --> 00:43:33.016
people have been asked to consider is to

00:43:33.040 --> 00:43:36.040
stay home, not to go to work. Um I think

00:43:38.240 --> 00:43:40.536
 disruption will become more of a

00:43:40.560 --> 00:43:42.936
problem rather than less of a problem.

00:43:42.960 --> 00:43:45.016
Um the other thing that I thought about

00:43:45.040 --> 00:43:47.736
reading this report is even if we

00:43:47.760 --> 00:43:49.416
thought it was a good economic

00:43:49.440 --> 00:43:52.376
proposition to sell  the building, we

00:43:52.400 --> 00:43:54.936
still have to provide a library and

00:43:54.960 --> 00:43:57.016
somewhere for staff. And I don't know

00:43:57.040 --> 00:43:59.416
anywhere else in Queanbeyan that could

00:43:59.440 --> 00:44:01.815
accommodate all our staff. We're not

00:44:01.839 --> 00:44:02.936
going to send them to work at the

00:44:02.960 --> 00:44:05.960
airport. So  I I'm also as someone who

00:44:07.280 --> 00:44:10.280
worked through co and um  like in a in

00:44:11.680 --> 00:44:14.616
an office environment  and often went

00:44:14.640 --> 00:44:17.640
into work to an empty near empty office

00:44:17.920 --> 00:44:20.920
and then saw what happened with um

00:44:21.280 --> 00:44:24.055
employee relationships and the the

00:44:24.079 --> 00:44:26.376
benefit of people being in the same work

00:44:26.400 --> 00:44:29.400
space. I don't think encouraging a lot

00:44:29.599 --> 00:44:31.976
of people to work from home and this

00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:34.136
that's one option is to basically have

00:44:34.160 --> 00:44:36.456
some hot desking. I'm not a fan of hot

00:44:36.480 --> 00:44:39.480
desking. I've seen the the downside of

00:44:39.599 --> 00:44:40.936
it. So that's not something I would

00:44:40.960 --> 00:44:43.736
support. I shrinking our floor space and

00:44:43.760 --> 00:44:46.760
um  and then renting out more space. I

00:44:46.880 --> 00:44:49.815
just think the commercial  property

00:44:49.839 --> 00:44:52.295
market is going to remain difficult. And

00:44:52.319 --> 00:44:54.936
I do think there's a strong value in

00:44:54.960 --> 00:44:56.856
having your staff being able to work

00:44:56.880 --> 00:44:59.880
together, not just in employee, not only

00:45:00.720 --> 00:45:03.095
in employee um sort of relationships,

00:45:03.119 --> 00:45:05.976
but in the in what it um how it

00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:07.575
catalyzes

00:45:07.599 --> 00:45:10.599
 work and ideas that  when people

00:45:12.240 --> 00:45:14.376
are working together in close proximity.

00:45:14.400 --> 00:45:17.400
And there's a a camaraderie  matter as

00:45:17.520 --> 00:45:19.335
well that people feel like they belong

00:45:19.359 --> 00:45:21.095
to an organization with a common

00:45:21.119 --> 00:45:24.119
purpose. Um so I  we have also over

00:45:26.000 --> 00:45:28.536
the last this term and last we've said

00:45:28.560 --> 00:45:31.335
we we will try to bring more um work

00:45:31.359 --> 00:45:34.359
inhouse rely less on consultants and and

00:45:34.480 --> 00:45:36.616
outsourcing which is also which is

00:45:36.640 --> 00:45:38.536
usually saves us money but it also

00:45:38.560 --> 00:45:41.560
builds  employee skills and our

00:45:42.319 --> 00:45:44.776
expertise. Um, so I haven't seen

00:45:44.800 --> 00:45:46.856
anything and listening to the questions

00:45:46.880 --> 00:45:48.856
and answers, I haven't seen anything

00:45:48.880 --> 00:45:51.575
that makes me nervous about trying to do

00:45:51.599 --> 00:45:54.216
this. It doesn't prevent us from

00:45:54.240 --> 00:45:56.536
revisiting the matter, you know, in a

00:45:56.560 --> 00:45:59.176
couple of years time, but I really I

00:45:59.200 --> 00:46:02.200
don't see an alternative for all those

00:46:02.560 --> 00:46:05.560
reasons um to to retaining the building.

00:46:07.599 --> 00:46:07.736
Thank

00:46:07.760 --> 00:46:09.575
you, Councelor Willis. Is there further

00:46:09.599 --> 00:46:12.216
speakers on the amendment? Councelor

00:46:12.240 --> 00:46:13.575
Grundy.

00:46:13.599 --> 00:46:15.575
Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um, I would like

00:46:15.599 --> 00:46:18.295
to ask a question through you, Mr.

00:46:18.319 --> 00:46:21.319
Mayor. Um why don't we have a evaluation

00:46:23.440 --> 00:46:26.440
report on um individual unoccupied

00:46:27.440 --> 00:46:29.575
properties that are superolous to

00:46:29.599 --> 00:46:32.599
council's needs and many are just

00:46:33.119 --> 00:46:36.119
sitting empty because that's one of the

00:46:36.960 --> 00:46:39.416
um additional pieces of information I

00:46:39.440 --> 00:46:41.736
would have been interested in to feed

00:46:41.760 --> 00:46:44.760
into this report to assist me um to make

00:46:46.880 --> 00:46:49.016
a fully informed decision. ision as to

00:46:49.040 --> 00:46:52.040
whether this option is the way to go. Um

00:46:52.640 --> 00:46:55.640
I know we've visited this matter

00:46:56.480 --> 00:46:58.936
 some time ago. We looked at a

00:46:58.960 --> 00:47:00.696
valuation on a number of these

00:47:00.720 --> 00:47:02.536
properties. It was determined at the

00:47:02.560 --> 00:47:05.560
time  not to sell because of the

00:47:06.079 --> 00:47:08.616
valuation. Um it was determined to hang

00:47:08.640 --> 00:47:11.640
on. Well, we've h we've hung on and that

00:47:12.240 --> 00:47:14.376
those values have most definitely

00:47:14.400 --> 00:47:17.400
dropped. So I think we're now at a point

00:47:18.079 --> 00:47:21.079
where a a

00:47:21.359 --> 00:47:24.055
a report on the valuation of those

00:47:24.079 --> 00:47:27.079
unoccupied properties would be helpful.

00:47:27.200 --> 00:47:30.200
Why wasn't it included?

00:47:30.400 --> 00:47:31.656
General manager.

00:47:31.680 --> 00:47:34.216
 through Mr. Mayor, this was report

00:47:34.240 --> 00:47:35.976
was specifically related related to the

00:47:36.000 --> 00:47:39.000
Nelly Hamilton Center options. Um the

00:47:40.240 --> 00:47:42.696
matter of the other other properties

00:47:42.720 --> 00:47:45.720
which are empty or have tenants was

00:47:46.480 --> 00:47:48.456
deferred until council complete the

00:47:48.480 --> 00:47:50.936
infill strategy, car parking strategy

00:47:50.960 --> 00:47:53.960
and potential um DCP amendments which

00:47:54.079 --> 00:47:56.616
then would um affect a re you know that

00:47:56.640 --> 00:47:58.776
those that valuation and the development

00:47:58.800 --> 00:48:01.095
potential of those lots. So a report

00:48:01.119 --> 00:48:03.815
will come back on those properties. This

00:48:03.839 --> 00:48:06.776
one was specifically about the Ney Nelly

00:48:06.800 --> 00:48:09.800
Hamilton Center and I just need do need

00:48:09.920 --> 00:48:12.920
to comment that if if a further report

00:48:13.760 --> 00:48:16.136
is required that's more detailed, we

00:48:16.160 --> 00:48:17.815
will need to engage a consultant. So I

00:48:17.839 --> 00:48:19.736
would bring a report back to advise

00:48:19.760 --> 00:48:21.896
council of that what that would cost

00:48:21.920 --> 00:48:23.575
bearing in mind that the last time we

00:48:23.599 --> 00:48:25.335
had the valuation done for the

00:48:25.359 --> 00:48:28.295
properties a few years ago the report

00:48:28.319 --> 00:48:30.856
cost around $40,000. So you'd be looking

00:48:30.880 --> 00:48:33.880
at $50 to $60,000 or around that amount

00:48:34.079 --> 00:48:37.079
for a proper analysis of valuation. We

00:48:38.079 --> 00:48:39.496
just don't have the resources to do that

00:48:39.520 --> 00:48:41.896
in house. Mr. Mayor, where is the

00:48:41.920 --> 00:48:44.055
evidence that we'd actually need to do

00:48:44.079 --> 00:48:47.079
that? I believe Mr. Fricker has

00:48:47.440 --> 00:48:50.136
competency in this area. He's provided

00:48:50.160 --> 00:48:53.160
quite a a decent report. Um all we're

00:48:54.559 --> 00:48:55.976
asking for is some additional

00:48:56.000 --> 00:48:58.616
components. And I know that this report

00:48:58.640 --> 00:49:01.496
relates exclusively to um the Nelly

00:49:01.520 --> 00:49:04.376
Hamilton Center. What what I was getting

00:49:04.400 --> 00:49:07.400
at was a possible um

00:49:08.640 --> 00:49:11.640
option avenue for us to look at  ways

00:49:11.920 --> 00:49:14.616
of paying down our loan so that we may

00:49:14.640 --> 00:49:16.535
be in a different position in terms of

00:49:16.559 --> 00:49:18.535
the options we look at. I think that's

00:49:18.559 --> 00:49:21.559
relevant.

00:49:21.599 --> 00:49:23.736
So is there a question in there? So

00:49:23.760 --> 00:49:26.055
you're saying that Mr. Africa has the

00:49:26.079 --> 00:49:27.656
expertise to provide the valuation

00:49:27.680 --> 00:49:28.936
you're after for the Are we talking

00:49:28.960 --> 00:49:30.376
about the buildings across the road

00:49:30.400 --> 00:49:32.376
specifically or is there something else

00:49:32.400 --> 00:49:33.416
you're you're talking about?

00:49:33.440 --> 00:49:36.440
We're talking about those CBDs CBD built

00:49:37.760 --> 00:49:39.575
um properties, but there's others. We've

00:49:39.599 --> 00:49:41.335
got blocks of land that are just sitting

00:49:41.359 --> 00:49:44.359
there. Um I think that needs to also be

00:49:45.040 --> 00:49:47.016
part of what we're trying to consider

00:49:47.040 --> 00:49:48.776
here. Why are they sitting there eating

00:49:48.800 --> 00:49:50.776
their heads off when they could be

00:49:50.800 --> 00:49:53.800
paying off a loan of 79 million for a

00:49:54.880 --> 00:49:57.496
building that's been valued at 39 to 52

00:49:57.520 --> 00:50:00.216
million?

00:50:00.240 --> 00:50:01.736
Okay, we'll take that as a comment. You

00:50:01.760 --> 00:50:03.095
have a question, Councelor Willis?

00:50:03.119 --> 00:50:06.119
I do.  maybe the staff can answer this

00:50:06.240 --> 00:50:08.936
question. As far as I know, in the CBD,

00:50:08.960 --> 00:50:10.936
we have no buildings that are

00:50:10.960 --> 00:50:13.960
unoccupied. They're leased. And it's my

00:50:14.960 --> 00:50:17.256
understanding that

00:50:17.280 --> 00:50:20.055
 most of the vacant land we own in the

00:50:20.079 --> 00:50:23.079
CBD is flood affected and as the general

00:50:24.240 --> 00:50:26.376
manager said will be the subject of the

00:50:26.400 --> 00:50:29.400
infill housing strategy.

00:50:30.400 --> 00:50:31.016
Question.

00:50:31.040 --> 00:50:32.456
Yeah. Is that a question you're asking

00:50:32.480 --> 00:50:33.256
councelor Willis?

00:50:33.280 --> 00:50:35.176
It is. Can staff confirm that our

00:50:35.200 --> 00:50:38.200
buildings in the CBD are leased? They're

00:50:38.480 --> 00:50:41.016
not vacant.

00:50:41.040 --> 00:50:43.815
 through you miss currently. Yes, the

00:50:43.839 --> 00:50:45.976
vacant the properties across the road

00:50:46.000 --> 00:50:48.616
are leased.

00:50:48.640 --> 00:50:50.055
Thank you. I'm just going to speak very

00:50:50.079 --> 00:50:51.575
quickly. I speak against the amendment

00:50:51.599 --> 00:50:52.696
and I'll be supporting the original

00:50:52.720 --> 00:50:54.776
motion if we go back to it. We got I

00:50:54.800 --> 00:50:56.616
feel like we got really off track here.

00:50:56.640 --> 00:50:58.696
We're talking about the options for this

00:50:58.720 --> 00:51:00.776
options review report for the center

00:51:00.800 --> 00:51:02.776
we're sitting in right now. The table is

00:51:02.800 --> 00:51:05.016
there and it's split up very easily.

00:51:05.040 --> 00:51:06.776
First option is ownership. I really hope

00:51:06.800 --> 00:51:08.856
no counselors think it's a good idea to

00:51:08.880 --> 00:51:10.696
sell this building. Refinance.

00:51:10.720 --> 00:51:11.976
Obviously, we should be looking at

00:51:12.000 --> 00:51:13.976
refinance options. I hope every council

00:51:14.000 --> 00:51:15.095
thinks that's the way we should be

00:51:15.119 --> 00:51:17.416
going. Council office accommodation.

00:51:17.440 --> 00:51:19.176
It's clear that the footprint that we

00:51:19.200 --> 00:51:21.256
have at the moment is appropriate and

00:51:21.280 --> 00:51:22.696
that we shouldn't be changing it. So,

00:51:22.720 --> 00:51:24.055
what are we talking about here? Other

00:51:24.079 --> 00:51:25.976
than potentially outsourcing property

00:51:26.000 --> 00:51:27.095
management, like if that's the only

00:51:27.119 --> 00:51:29.575
thing we're talking about, then I feel

00:51:29.599 --> 00:51:31.016
staff can take that on board and come

00:51:31.040 --> 00:51:33.016
back to us about options in that regard.

00:51:33.040 --> 00:51:34.616
I don't know why we're going down this

00:51:34.640 --> 00:51:36.696
path of

00:51:36.720 --> 00:51:38.295
what other properties council owns in

00:51:38.319 --> 00:51:40.616
the CBD and all sorts of other things. I

00:51:40.640 --> 00:51:42.776
think we get on with it. We support the

00:51:42.800 --> 00:51:44.776
staff recommendation. Is there further

00:51:44.800 --> 00:51:46.776
speakers on the amendment? Otherwise,

00:51:46.800 --> 00:51:48.776
councelor Broadman can sum up debate on

00:51:48.800 --> 00:51:50.376
the amendment.

00:51:50.400 --> 00:51:53.400
Yeah, look um I obviously didn't speak

00:51:54.079 --> 00:51:56.776
my mind properly initially and I'm very

00:51:56.800 --> 00:51:59.016
that's a bit unfortunate um because my

00:51:59.040 --> 00:52:01.575
gosh, I want to be very clear. I I don't

00:52:01.599 --> 00:52:04.599
think um when you when you buy something

00:52:04.800 --> 00:52:06.856
um you don't just offload it the next

00:52:06.880 --> 00:52:08.936
day.  you know that's that's I don't

00:52:08.960 --> 00:52:10.456
think it's a sensible idea personally

00:52:10.480 --> 00:52:12.936
for council to be renting accommodation.

00:52:12.960 --> 00:52:15.960
So I'm I my my intent um with this

00:52:16.000 --> 00:52:19.000
motion was not to drive towards us

00:52:19.119 --> 00:52:21.335
selling it. Um but really there is in

00:52:21.359 --> 00:52:23.896
front of us there is eight options. um

00:52:23.920 --> 00:52:25.976
four of those options are are not

00:52:26.000 --> 00:52:28.216
selling the property and we really have

00:52:28.240 --> 00:52:29.896
no way to tell the difference between

00:52:29.920 --> 00:52:32.216
those options in front of us. And that

00:52:32.240 --> 00:52:34.535
that is that that's the crux of my my

00:52:34.559 --> 00:52:37.496
deferral is we have no way to tell the

00:52:37.520 --> 00:52:38.776
difference between those options as

00:52:38.800 --> 00:52:41.016
counselors except for staff suggesting

00:52:41.040 --> 00:52:44.040
that we vote for  option five. There's

00:52:44.160 --> 00:52:46.535
some there's some rough reasons around

00:52:46.559 --> 00:52:48.776
why one's better than the other. Um the

00:52:48.800 --> 00:52:51.800
property management is is an example. um

00:52:51.920 --> 00:52:53.896
without the that without that extra

00:52:53.920 --> 00:52:56.856
detail. Um which would probably save us

00:52:56.880 --> 00:52:58.376
a lot more money. Picking the right

00:52:58.400 --> 00:52:59.575
option would save us a lot more money

00:52:59.599 --> 00:53:01.736
than 60 grand on a report done by a

00:53:01.760 --> 00:53:02.776
consultant who knows what they're doing

00:53:02.800 --> 00:53:05.416
if that's what's necessary. Um I I find

00:53:05.440 --> 00:53:08.440
that to be um frankly not evidence-based

00:53:08.720 --> 00:53:10.856
decision-m which is what I personally

00:53:10.880 --> 00:53:13.880
would expect of  my councilors as a

00:53:14.160 --> 00:53:16.136
constituent.

00:53:16.160 --> 00:53:17.176
We're going to put the amendment. And

00:53:17.200 --> 00:53:18.456
all in favor of the amendment are

00:53:18.480 --> 00:53:21.016
councilors Broadbent, Grundy, Schwacket,

00:53:21.040 --> 00:53:22.696
and Waterhouse. And those against are

00:53:22.720 --> 00:53:24.696
councilors Livermore, MacDonald, Preston,

00:53:24.720 --> 00:53:26.295
Tascowski, Willis, Wilson, and

00:53:26.319 --> 00:53:27.976
Winchester. I declare it lost. Is there

00:53:28.000 --> 00:53:30.055
further debate on the motion? If not,

00:53:30.079 --> 00:53:31.176
I'm going to put the motion. All those

00:53:31.200 --> 00:53:33.256
in favor are councilors Livermore,

00:53:33.280 --> 00:53:35.896
Macdonald, Preston, Schwack, Tasoski,

00:53:35.920 --> 00:53:37.176
Waterhouse, Willis, Wilson, and

00:53:37.200 --> 00:53:38.696
Winchester. And against councils

00:53:38.720 --> 00:53:40.216
Broadbent, and Grandy, I declare it

00:53:40.240 --> 00:53:43.095
carried. The next item is 8.4, four,

00:53:43.119 --> 00:53:45.656
which is the post exhibition report

00:53:45.680 --> 00:53:48.680
revised unsealed council road policy.

00:53:49.119 --> 00:53:50.535
Councelor Waterhouse.

00:53:50.559 --> 00:53:53.176
Thanks very much, Mr. Mayor. I'd like to

00:53:53.200 --> 00:53:55.416
move an alternative  to that

00:53:55.440 --> 00:53:58.136
recommendation that I sent through

00:53:58.160 --> 00:54:00.696
earlier today. Um although I was

00:54:00.720 --> 00:54:02.696
recommended that I make a much simpler

00:54:02.720 --> 00:54:05.016
version of it, I'd like to run with this

00:54:05.040 --> 00:54:07.095
if I may. Would you like me to read it

00:54:07.119 --> 00:54:07.896
or

00:54:07.920 --> 00:54:10.376
Yes, please.

00:54:10.400 --> 00:54:13.400
Sorry, I'm having conipions here. Um,

00:54:13.680 --> 00:54:16.376
that council one note the submissions

00:54:16.400 --> 00:54:18.376
received during the public exhibition of

00:54:18.400 --> 00:54:21.400
the revised unsealed road policy. Two,

00:54:22.240 --> 00:54:24.535
delay endorsing the policy until after a

00:54:24.559 --> 00:54:26.856
workshop for staff and counselors so

00:54:26.880 --> 00:54:29.256
that we can collaborate on improving the

00:54:29.280 --> 00:54:31.176
policy more closely based on the

00:54:31.200 --> 00:54:33.496
submissions received.

00:54:33.520 --> 00:54:36.216
Three, that category 10 description of

00:54:36.240 --> 00:54:38.055
roads be removed from the current

00:54:38.079 --> 00:54:40.936
existing policy which is still in place

00:54:40.960 --> 00:54:43.256
and that those roads be inspected to

00:54:43.280 --> 00:54:45.095
assess what work will be required to

00:54:45.119 --> 00:54:47.896
asssure safety and accessibility mainly

00:54:47.920 --> 00:54:49.736
to inform the new policy after its

00:54:49.760 --> 00:54:52.760
endorsement in a few weeks.

00:54:52.800 --> 00:54:55.095
Four requests that the general manager

00:54:55.119 --> 00:54:56.936
undertake a full investigation into the

00:54:56.960 --> 00:54:58.696
handling of submissions received during

00:54:58.720 --> 00:55:01.720
the community consultation process. how

00:55:01.760 --> 00:55:03.496
some valid submissions have been

00:55:03.520 --> 00:55:05.896
mishandled and whether similar issues

00:55:05.920 --> 00:55:08.055
may have occurred in other QPRC

00:55:08.079 --> 00:55:10.535
community consultations and report the

00:55:10.559 --> 00:55:13.559
findings to council.

00:55:14.319 --> 00:55:16.776
Do we have a second for this motion?

00:55:16.800 --> 00:55:19.575
Councelor Grundy. Councelor Waterhouse.

00:55:19.599 --> 00:55:20.856
Thanks very much, Mr. Mayor. Thanks,

00:55:20.880 --> 00:55:23.880
Councelor Grundy. I'm quite um open to

00:55:24.640 --> 00:55:26.456
other suggestions from my council or

00:55:26.480 --> 00:55:29.480
colleagues to refine this. Um and I'm

00:55:30.000 --> 00:55:32.376
I'm quite open to friendly modification

00:55:32.400 --> 00:55:34.055
to this. So I'm not precious about the

00:55:34.079 --> 00:55:36.456
wording of it. Um and it's already been

00:55:36.480 --> 00:55:37.815
suggested that we could probably drop

00:55:37.839 --> 00:55:40.456
number three out for instance. I've also

00:55:40.480 --> 00:55:42.376
had suggested that we might add a number

00:55:42.400 --> 00:55:45.256
five. So um I'm quite open to those

00:55:45.280 --> 00:55:48.280
ideas. The reason I brought this up is

00:55:48.960 --> 00:55:51.960
that in on December 17th, 2025,

00:55:54.400 --> 00:55:57.256
this council rejected

00:55:57.280 --> 00:55:59.575
um the unsealed council road policy that

00:55:59.599 --> 00:56:02.599
was given to us at that time and we said

00:56:03.359 --> 00:56:06.359
it wasn't good enough. We rejected it.

00:56:07.440 --> 00:56:09.976
Okay. We sent it back for another round

00:56:10.000 --> 00:56:12.136
of consultation with the community to

00:56:12.160 --> 00:56:15.160
elicit better ideas to in to inform the

00:56:15.760 --> 00:56:18.456
a new version of this policy and to make

00:56:18.480 --> 00:56:21.256
it better.

00:56:21.280 --> 00:56:24.280
They're identical.

00:56:24.559 --> 00:56:27.559
They're completely absolutely identical.

00:56:27.599 --> 00:56:30.599
So the last four months with some 28 or

00:56:30.720 --> 00:56:33.496
29 submissions many of which run to many

00:56:33.520 --> 00:56:35.896
many pages where people have spent

00:56:35.920 --> 00:56:38.216
countless hours putting together their

00:56:38.240 --> 00:56:41.016
submissions myself included councelor

00:56:41.040 --> 00:56:43.095
Grundy included and I think a couple

00:56:43.119 --> 00:56:46.119
other counselors I'm not sure and many

00:56:46.240 --> 00:56:48.376
members of the public some of them small

00:56:48.400 --> 00:56:51.400
and modest others very very detailed

00:56:52.000 --> 00:56:54.775
and it's had no effect whatsoever

00:56:54.799 --> 00:56:57.496
and I find that very disappointing And I

00:56:57.520 --> 00:56:59.815
think the counselors and the staff need

00:56:59.839 --> 00:57:01.416
to sit down and have a really long hard

00:57:01.440 --> 00:57:03.736
think about

00:57:03.760 --> 00:57:05.335
get if we're going to have community

00:57:05.359 --> 00:57:07.095
consultation,

00:57:07.119 --> 00:57:10.119
well that has to have an effect.

00:57:10.720 --> 00:57:13.496
What it says was in the report it says

00:57:13.520 --> 00:57:15.416
the revised unsealed road council road

00:57:15.440 --> 00:57:17.656
policy does not require further updates

00:57:17.680 --> 00:57:19.256
to address the issues raised during the

00:57:19.280 --> 00:57:21.815
second community consultation. They're

00:57:21.839 --> 00:57:23.335
largely similar to those from the first

00:57:23.359 --> 00:57:24.856
consultation.

00:57:24.880 --> 00:57:27.815
The first consultation  resulted in us

00:57:27.839 --> 00:57:29.496
saying that wasn't good enough and it

00:57:29.520 --> 00:57:32.520
had to be rewritten and it hasn't been.

00:57:34.079 --> 00:57:35.656
It also claims that the primary

00:57:35.680 --> 00:57:37.976
objective of the recommendation of

00:57:38.000 --> 00:57:41.000
changes was to provide um council the

00:57:41.280 --> 00:57:44.280
capacity to work on category 10 roads.

00:57:44.799 --> 00:57:46.696
It's not the primary objective. It was

00:57:46.720 --> 00:57:49.256
one of many objectives.

00:57:49.280 --> 00:57:51.575
many objectives including a clarity of

00:57:51.599 --> 00:57:54.599
thought, a clarity of explanation, a

00:57:54.640 --> 00:57:57.095
clarity of definition of things that

00:57:57.119 --> 00:58:00.119
made sense that that were easily um

00:58:01.040 --> 00:58:03.256
explained to the public and easily

00:58:03.280 --> 00:58:06.280
managed by staff. Residents requested

00:58:06.559 --> 00:58:08.376
clearer explanations of how the roads

00:58:08.400 --> 00:58:10.456
would be classified and that hasn't been

00:58:10.480 --> 00:58:12.696
given to them.

00:58:12.720 --> 00:58:15.496
The revised policy says it's it defines

00:58:15.520 --> 00:58:17.176
two categories, scheduled roads and

00:58:17.200 --> 00:58:19.815
unscheduled roads. Um, but it doesn't

00:58:19.839 --> 00:58:21.656
say how they get there. It doesn't say

00:58:21.680 --> 00:58:24.680
how they're redefined. It doesn't say um

00:58:25.520 --> 00:58:27.575
the the grading sort of indicates the

00:58:27.599 --> 00:58:30.599
grading pro process procedures sort of

00:58:30.720 --> 00:58:32.535
indicates that well these these are

00:58:32.559 --> 00:58:34.136
important roads and they're busy and

00:58:34.160 --> 00:58:35.815
they need to be graded every 3 months or

00:58:35.839 --> 00:58:37.736
6 months or 12 months. Sorry. So you get

00:58:37.760 --> 00:58:39.896
a bit of a sense of it. But there's this

00:58:39.920 --> 00:58:42.136
this notion of well the these are

00:58:42.160 --> 00:58:45.095
council assets and there's these terms

00:58:45.119 --> 00:58:48.119
such as um actual asset condition  and

00:58:49.520 --> 00:58:52.520
it's defined on the first page um actual

00:58:53.760 --> 00:58:55.335
asset

00:58:55.359 --> 00:58:57.896
um but by what measure? How is it

00:58:57.920 --> 00:59:00.456
measured? It's not in there. There's no

00:59:00.480 --> 00:59:02.616
explanation. And we raised this in

00:59:02.640 --> 00:59:04.856
December.

00:59:04.880 --> 00:59:06.696
Intended asset condition. What's that

00:59:06.720 --> 00:59:09.720
mean? What do you intend my road to be?

00:59:09.839 --> 00:59:12.456
Who's going to intend that? I intend my

00:59:12.480 --> 00:59:15.335
road to be 6 m wide, but it's Red Hill

00:59:15.359 --> 00:59:17.976
Road in Maj's Creek and it's 4 m wide

00:59:18.000 --> 00:59:19.976
and it's not going to become 6 m wide

00:59:20.000 --> 00:59:23.000
whether I intend it to be or not. It's

00:59:23.200 --> 00:59:24.775
there's no explanation of it in the in

00:59:24.799 --> 00:59:27.176
the policy. I don't know how any staff

00:59:27.200 --> 00:59:30.200
member can can utilize this as a as a

00:59:30.799 --> 00:59:33.736
you know a document they can follow that

00:59:33.760 --> 00:59:36.760
sets their their work processes. The

00:59:37.280 --> 00:59:38.936
whole notion of a minimum construction

00:59:38.960 --> 00:59:41.335
standard was pointed out as being not

00:59:41.359 --> 00:59:44.359
very useful in December on the 17th. And

00:59:45.760 --> 00:59:47.736
they've got this minimum construction

00:59:47.760 --> 00:59:50.535
standard which is unrealistic. There's

00:59:50.559 --> 00:59:53.095
only a handful of roads in this entire

00:59:53.119 --> 00:59:56.119
QPRC area that come anywhere near 6 m

00:59:56.559 --> 00:59:59.559
wide with 150 mm 125 mm depths of

01:00:00.799 --> 01:00:03.656
gravel. There's hardly any of them.

01:00:03.680 --> 01:00:05.095
There certainly certainly none that I

01:00:05.119 --> 01:00:07.335
drive on very often. There's bits and

01:00:07.359 --> 01:00:09.256
pieces of road that are like that, but

01:00:09.280 --> 01:00:11.575
the vast majority of road is much more

01:00:11.599 --> 01:00:13.815
like a second kind of level like the

01:00:13.839 --> 01:00:16.136
four meters wide. You can still two pass

01:00:16.160 --> 01:00:19.160
two cars at a sensible speed, etc., etc.

01:00:19.920 --> 01:00:22.696
And that wasn't um implemented either.

01:00:22.720 --> 01:00:25.256
And they get statements in the report

01:00:25.280 --> 01:00:28.280
that says um on that particular matter

01:00:28.799 --> 01:00:30.696
um

01:00:30.720 --> 01:00:33.720
there's still no benchmarks to to um to

01:00:34.079 --> 01:00:36.936
the to the um construction. this, you

01:00:36.960 --> 01:00:38.696
know, I suggested two construction

01:00:38.720 --> 01:00:40.856
benchmarks for roads. There's still no

01:00:40.880 --> 01:00:41.976
real benchmarks.

01:00:42.000 --> 01:00:44.616
Councelor, you passed five minutes.

01:00:44.640 --> 01:00:46.216
May I request a little bit of extra

01:00:46.240 --> 01:00:46.775
time, please?

01:00:46.799 --> 01:00:48.136
I'll give you 30 seconds to wrap up,

01:00:48.160 --> 01:00:49.256
then we'll go to the second.

01:00:49.280 --> 01:00:51.496
Thank you. While these prop proposals

01:00:51.520 --> 01:00:53.976
provide useful perspectives, the revised

01:00:54.000 --> 01:00:55.815
policy aims to maintain a consistent and

01:00:55.839 --> 01:00:57.976
practical framework. How do you have

01:00:58.000 --> 01:00:59.416
practical framework without any

01:00:59.440 --> 01:01:01.176
definitions, without any benchmarks,

01:01:01.200 --> 01:01:03.496
without any measurements? This policy as

01:01:03.520 --> 01:01:06.520
it stands is inadequate. It doesn't meet

01:01:06.720 --> 01:01:08.616
the requirements that we need as a

01:01:08.640 --> 01:01:10.696
council and it certainly doesn't meet

01:01:10.720 --> 01:01:13.176
the requirements that that the many

01:01:13.200 --> 01:01:15.335
members of public put a lot of hours

01:01:15.359 --> 01:01:17.575
into putting forward and in fact some of

01:01:17.599 --> 01:01:20.216
those were even dropped off apparently.

01:01:20.240 --> 01:01:21.176
Thank you very much for your

01:01:21.200 --> 01:01:22.775
forbearance. Thanks Councelor

01:01:22.799 --> 01:01:25.656
Waterhouse. Councelor Gandhi.

01:01:25.680 --> 01:01:27.815
Thank you Mr. Mayor.  and thank you

01:01:27.839 --> 01:01:30.456
for th that those comments to remind us

01:01:30.480 --> 01:01:32.376
why we're here.

01:01:32.400 --> 01:01:34.136


01:01:34.160 --> 01:01:36.775
it might seem a shame to many that we

01:01:36.799 --> 01:01:39.799
are talking about a workshop but um from

01:01:41.599 --> 01:01:44.136
what councelor  Waterhouse has just

01:01:44.160 --> 01:01:47.160
explained we've had the opportunity to

01:01:48.240 --> 01:01:50.535
 do this

01:01:50.559 --> 01:01:53.559
policy this draft policy well and

01:01:53.599 --> 01:01:55.736
somehow we've we've missed that

01:01:55.760 --> 01:01:57.736
opportunity.

01:01:57.760 --> 01:01:59.896
Um, I'll give you some examples of how

01:01:59.920 --> 01:02:01.976
we've missed that opportunity and why we

01:02:02.000 --> 01:02:05.000
need to um to correct things.

01:02:06.799 --> 01:02:08.456
There's no in the draft there's no

01:02:08.480 --> 01:02:11.335
definition of of  criteria that

01:02:11.359 --> 01:02:14.136
governs how a road finds itself on the

01:02:14.160 --> 01:02:17.160
unscheduled road list. Now, there's some

01:02:17.359 --> 01:02:19.176
criteria that's listed in the body of

01:02:19.200 --> 01:02:21.575
the report, but this is not appropriate.

01:02:21.599 --> 01:02:23.896
It needs to be in in the actual document

01:02:23.920 --> 01:02:26.920
in the policy itself.

01:02:27.280 --> 01:02:30.280
I'll remind my colleagues that this

01:02:30.880 --> 01:02:33.736
policy affects people's lives. It's all

01:02:33.760 --> 01:02:36.295
very well for the majority of you here

01:02:36.319 --> 01:02:39.319
in this room who have a bumen  road

01:02:40.559 --> 01:02:43.559
right to your gate. Um you have probably

01:02:44.640 --> 01:02:47.640
street lights and footpaths. Um many in

01:02:48.799 --> 01:02:51.799
the rural areas don't have that. Um and

01:02:52.240 --> 01:02:55.240
these people rely on safe accessible

01:02:55.839 --> 01:02:57.656
access to their homes. They're not

01:02:57.680 --> 01:03:00.616
asking for goldplated. In fact, some of

01:03:00.640 --> 01:03:02.535
them are quite happy to maintain the

01:03:02.559 --> 01:03:04.376
roads themselves.

01:03:04.400 --> 01:03:06.936
They just want clarity. There's

01:03:06.960 --> 01:03:09.960
questioning questions around the um the

01:03:11.200 --> 01:03:14.200
legality of individual residents being

01:03:15.440 --> 01:03:18.440
able to apply for an S138 to do works on

01:03:19.839 --> 01:03:22.839
um our asset, our road. Um I believe

01:03:23.920 --> 01:03:26.295
that's that's never been done before. In

01:03:26.319 --> 01:03:29.319
fact, um Mr. Duff, if you recall, said

01:03:30.160 --> 01:03:32.616
in this chamber that we are the only

01:03:32.640 --> 01:03:35.640
council that is going down this route in

01:03:36.240 --> 01:03:39.240
um trying to  put a policy in place

01:03:40.559 --> 01:03:43.559
that endorses not maintaining one of

01:03:44.240 --> 01:03:47.240
some of our roads. Um so I'll remind you

01:03:47.440 --> 01:03:49.416
we are the we will be if we put this

01:03:49.440 --> 01:03:51.736
through, we will be the only council in

01:03:51.760 --> 01:03:53.656
New South Wales where that that has been

01:03:53.680 --> 01:03:55.256
done.

01:03:55.280 --> 01:03:58.280
I'll also remind you that  individuals

01:03:58.640 --> 01:04:01.640
on these unscheduled roads, unmaintained

01:04:02.319 --> 01:04:03.815
roads,

01:04:03.839 --> 01:04:06.295
 are people that have needs like you

01:04:06.319 --> 01:04:09.176
and I, basic needs. They'd like to be

01:04:09.200 --> 01:04:11.575
able to be accessed by an ambulance.

01:04:11.599 --> 01:04:14.599
Now, I know the policy suggests

01:04:14.960 --> 01:04:17.960
um that council will ascertain  and do

01:04:19.359 --> 01:04:22.359
an inspection maybe. Um there's a lot of

01:04:23.359 --> 01:04:25.976
maybe in this document and I think we

01:04:26.000 --> 01:04:28.216
need to go back through this and

01:04:28.240 --> 01:04:29.736
establish

01:04:29.760 --> 01:04:32.760
um how we can shore this up so there's

01:04:33.119 --> 01:04:36.119
not ambig ambiguity.

01:04:36.319 --> 01:04:39.095
how we reassure those that it affects

01:04:39.119 --> 01:04:42.119
that um their roads will be safe and

01:04:43.039 --> 01:04:46.039
accessible and how we work through the

01:04:46.160 --> 01:04:49.160
question around legality with  this

01:04:49.280 --> 01:04:51.656
S138

01:04:51.680 --> 01:04:54.376
problem because  I don't know if you

01:04:54.400 --> 01:04:57.400
know but there are or out there in the

01:04:57.760 --> 01:05:00.456
community um

01:05:00.480 --> 01:05:03.335
there has been blanket  approvals

01:05:03.359 --> 01:05:05.656
given by previous staff to members of

01:05:05.680 --> 01:05:07.815
the community to maintain these roads

01:05:07.839 --> 01:05:10.839
themselves. Now, what will happen to

01:05:10.880 --> 01:05:13.015
those blanket approvals with this

01:05:13.039 --> 01:05:14.775
policy? We need to think about those

01:05:14.799 --> 01:05:17.799
sorts of things. Um, will they be will

01:05:18.079 --> 01:05:20.535
these residents be notified that things

01:05:20.559 --> 01:05:23.559
have changed for them? Um, I'll also add

01:05:23.920 --> 01:05:25.815
that there has not, to my knowledge,

01:05:25.839 --> 01:05:28.839
ever been an approval for an S138 by

01:05:28.960 --> 01:05:31.896
this council. Never. Um, there's been

01:05:31.920 --> 01:05:34.136
applications, but there's never been one

01:05:34.160 --> 01:05:36.376
approved. So these are the sorts of

01:05:36.400 --> 01:05:39.400
questions I think does need to go into a

01:05:40.880 --> 01:05:43.496
an environment such as a workshop so we

01:05:43.520 --> 01:05:45.815
can get it right so that we can be proud

01:05:45.839 --> 01:05:47.815
at the end of the day that we really

01:05:47.839 --> 01:05:50.839
have fixed up quite a a messy um

01:05:52.960 --> 01:05:55.960
unwieldy type of  policy that's going

01:05:56.160 --> 01:05:58.136
to really benefit a lot of our residents

01:05:58.160 --> 01:06:00.856
in rural areas.

01:06:00.880 --> 01:06:02.136
Thank you councelor Granny. Just before

01:06:02.160 --> 01:06:03.976
I go to further counsel, I just want to

01:06:04.000 --> 01:06:05.575
very quick comment from the general

01:06:05.599 --> 01:06:07.815
manager particularly on

01:06:07.839 --> 01:06:10.839
point 4  about the request to

01:06:11.920 --> 01:06:13.256
undertake the investigation about the

01:06:13.280 --> 01:06:14.696
submissions. Just want to make a brief

01:06:14.720 --> 01:06:17.496
comment on on what's happened with the

01:06:17.520 --> 01:06:19.976
submissions for this  agenda item

01:06:20.000 --> 01:06:20.775
tonight.

01:06:20.799 --> 01:06:22.535
 through you, Mr. Mayor, we don't need

01:06:22.559 --> 01:06:24.136
to do an investigation. We know what

01:06:24.160 --> 01:06:26.216
happened with the submissions. They were

01:06:26.240 --> 01:06:29.240
all provided to the manager who reviewed

01:06:29.280 --> 01:06:31.095
them and then responded to those

01:06:31.119 --> 01:06:33.815
submissions. It was just they were the

01:06:33.839 --> 01:06:35.656
emails that didn't come through the your

01:06:35.680 --> 01:06:38.136
voice platform were inadvertently left

01:06:38.160 --> 01:06:39.896
off the attachment. So there's no need

01:06:39.920 --> 01:06:42.136
for an investigation. Can I also just

01:06:42.160 --> 01:06:44.775
suggest that undertaking a review of all

01:06:44.799 --> 01:06:46.936
the current category 10 roads could take

01:06:46.960 --> 01:06:49.736
us 12 to 18 months. As council is aware,

01:06:49.760 --> 01:06:51.416
we don't know what some of these roads

01:06:51.440 --> 01:06:53.335
are. And I might just make two more

01:06:53.359 --> 01:06:55.736
comments, please. Um and that is the

01:06:55.760 --> 01:06:58.760
current policy in place says that we do

01:06:58.880 --> 01:07:01.176
not maintain these un these category 10

01:07:01.200 --> 01:07:04.200
roads flat refusal. The new policy was

01:07:04.559 --> 01:07:06.936
developed bearing in mind our

01:07:06.960 --> 01:07:08.616
responsibilities as a local road

01:07:08.640 --> 01:07:11.095
authority for our road assets. Council

01:07:11.119 --> 01:07:13.496
also has approved section 138

01:07:13.520 --> 01:07:15.736
applications which I have been privy to

01:07:15.760 --> 01:07:18.760
know about. Um and um at the December

01:07:20.000 --> 01:07:21.656
council meeting, council actually

01:07:21.680 --> 01:07:24.216
endorsed the policy that was revised

01:07:24.240 --> 01:07:26.295
that we presented to council for public

01:07:26.319 --> 01:07:28.696
exhibition. You did not reject it as I

01:07:28.720 --> 01:07:31.720
remember. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

01:07:31.839 --> 01:07:34.456
C. Is there further speakers? Yeah.

01:07:34.480 --> 01:07:37.480
Council MacDonald.

01:07:38.000 --> 01:07:40.856
Well, look, I I regret that we're in

01:07:40.880 --> 01:07:43.880
this position where I will um agree in

01:07:45.119 --> 01:07:47.416
in many respects with councelor

01:07:47.440 --> 01:07:49.815
Waterhouse and in effect kick this

01:07:49.839 --> 01:07:52.839
matter down the proverbial road. Um

01:07:54.079 --> 01:07:57.079
and  and indeed is another pun. It has

01:07:57.680 --> 01:08:00.680
been a long and bumpy um unsealed

01:08:01.119 --> 01:08:03.976
brackets  road  because this was

01:08:04.000 --> 01:08:05.815
something I think one of the first the

01:08:05.839 --> 01:08:08.775
first matters um that I started to deal

01:08:08.799 --> 01:08:11.799
with first substantive matter um that I

01:08:12.079 --> 01:08:14.136
started to deal with  when I was first

01:08:14.160 --> 01:08:17.160
elected and um had early conversations

01:08:17.520 --> 01:08:18.936
with the general manager in the old

01:08:18.960 --> 01:08:21.960
building  to try to get my head around

01:08:22.159 --> 01:08:25.159
what I thought was a legally fraugh and

01:08:25.520 --> 01:08:28.295
um if not legally ly fraugh at least a

01:08:28.319 --> 01:08:31.319
 inequitable application of  of our

01:08:31.520 --> 01:08:34.135
roads maintenance schedule and I 

01:08:34.159 --> 01:08:37.159
along the journey  have firmed in that

01:08:37.359 --> 01:08:38.936
view.

01:08:38.960 --> 01:08:41.960
Um in that lament of of  you know

01:08:45.199 --> 01:08:48.199
deferring this further  I did ask

01:08:48.799 --> 01:08:51.799
myself are we you know am I seeking to

01:08:52.480 --> 01:08:54.775
make  perfect the enemy of the good

01:08:54.799 --> 01:08:57.799
here? And um and I I've resolved that um

01:08:58.319 --> 01:09:01.096
that this isn't the good um this isn't

01:09:01.120 --> 01:09:03.655
as good as it can be and we do have an

01:09:03.679 --> 01:09:06.376
option to do things really well and we

01:09:06.400 --> 01:09:08.695
had that option indeed when we went out

01:09:08.719 --> 01:09:11.719
to the community and  as my friend 

01:09:12.640 --> 01:09:15.640
council waterhouse um put um

01:09:17.120 --> 01:09:20.120
notwithstanding the community's input

01:09:20.400 --> 01:09:23.400
um the

01:09:24.080 --> 01:09:26.376
original document appeared a fatal

01:09:26.400 --> 01:09:28.616
compon.

01:09:28.640 --> 01:09:31.640
These are not matters which are as  as

01:09:31.759 --> 01:09:34.759
councelor Grundy alluded um esoteric or

01:09:34.799 --> 01:09:37.416
or immaterial to many residents. They

01:09:37.440 --> 01:09:40.440
are matters of um substance and  and

01:09:42.480 --> 01:09:45.480
 quite a and substantive

01:09:47.279 --> 01:09:50.279
 nature because they go to their um

01:09:51.679 --> 01:09:54.679
safety to their livelihoods.

01:09:54.800 --> 01:09:57.800
And having, as I said, um dealt with

01:09:58.560 --> 01:10:01.560
this matter for um for some years now,

01:10:02.560 --> 01:10:05.560
 I would feel great regret in not

01:10:08.159 --> 01:10:11.159
in in waving through  what I do not

01:10:12.560 --> 01:10:15.416
believe to be a policy that is all it

01:10:15.440 --> 01:10:18.440
can be.  and providing for those

01:10:18.800 --> 01:10:20.856
residents who have asked me over many

01:10:20.880 --> 01:10:23.880
years to  to  develop something 

01:10:25.600 --> 01:10:28.600
which is better. This is at at base

01:10:29.520 --> 01:10:32.456
level better but I believe it can be

01:10:32.480 --> 01:10:35.480
better still and the frankly  rush

01:10:38.159 --> 01:10:41.159
that we may have on this ought not be

01:10:41.679 --> 01:10:44.616
dictated by a view that let's get it off

01:10:44.640 --> 01:10:47.096
the books. I want it off the books and I

01:10:47.120 --> 01:10:49.576
want it in the community to a point that

01:10:49.600 --> 01:10:52.600
they and I are comfortable and satisfied

01:10:53.199 --> 01:10:55.976
that it is a good policy.

01:10:56.000 --> 01:10:57.336
Thank you, Council MacDonald. Councelor

01:10:57.360 --> 01:10:59.096
Broadman,

01:10:59.120 --> 01:11:01.816
 I'm not going to labor the point on

01:11:01.840 --> 01:11:04.695
the actual unsold road policy, but I 

01:11:04.719 --> 01:11:07.576
want to speak in strong support of 

01:11:07.600 --> 01:11:09.576
item number four  in front of us

01:11:09.600 --> 01:11:12.536
there. And my my reason for that is I to

01:11:12.560 --> 01:11:15.560
to be very frank  I think to suggest

01:11:15.840 --> 01:11:18.840
that  our community's emails when they

01:11:19.120 --> 01:11:22.120
put submissions in um being lost is is

01:11:22.640 --> 01:11:24.536
not worthy of an investigation is

01:11:24.560 --> 01:11:27.175
frankly abhorrent. Um we have a history

01:11:27.199 --> 01:11:28.536
of um

01:11:28.560 --> 01:11:30.135
councelor Bman that's that's not what

01:11:30.159 --> 01:11:31.576
the general manager is saying. I'm not

01:11:31.600 --> 01:11:33.336
sure you heard her response about what

01:11:33.360 --> 01:11:33.896
happened with

01:11:33.920 --> 01:11:35.175
what I heard. Sorry.

01:11:35.199 --> 01:11:36.536
No. Yeah.

01:11:36.560 --> 01:11:39.096
Okay. Sorry, that's fine. I'll take back

01:11:39.120 --> 01:11:40.776
my verbal. I don't I want to be very

01:11:40.800 --> 01:11:43.800
clear though um and maybe more clear

01:11:44.080 --> 01:11:47.080
about what I believe um is like this

01:11:48.320 --> 01:11:51.320
this idea of our of of the community's

01:11:51.679 --> 01:11:53.816
input being lost because of an

01:11:53.840 --> 01:11:56.456
administrative error. Um whether that's

01:11:56.480 --> 01:11:57.816
what happened or not, that is the

01:11:57.840 --> 01:12:00.376
implication that that is that is and

01:12:00.400 --> 01:12:02.056
understood by the community and that is

01:12:02.080 --> 01:12:03.576
the implication that is understood even

01:12:03.600 --> 01:12:05.175
by this motion being on the screen in

01:12:05.199 --> 01:12:08.199
front of the community. So, so

01:12:09.280 --> 01:12:11.256
as simple as it is, that is what that is

01:12:11.280 --> 01:12:12.616
what the community is going to

01:12:12.640 --> 01:12:14.215
experience. We know that the community

01:12:14.239 --> 01:12:15.896
we've experienced with the Vikings Club,

01:12:15.920 --> 01:12:18.920
we have a history of challenging um well

01:12:19.520 --> 01:12:21.496
getting struggling to get the community

01:12:21.520 --> 01:12:23.175
involved and engaged on community

01:12:23.199 --> 01:12:25.896
consultation and I believe it really

01:12:25.920 --> 01:12:28.920
needs to be done better.  I do think

01:12:29.120 --> 01:12:31.976
 there's not I don't see an issue with

01:12:32.000 --> 01:12:34.616
this um point4 um and I don't know why

01:12:34.640 --> 01:12:36.135
what the fight is against. As I

01:12:36.159 --> 01:12:37.816
understand we have a quality management

01:12:37.840 --> 01:12:39.576
system in council. The quality

01:12:39.600 --> 01:12:41.736
management system I hope will provide

01:12:41.760 --> 01:12:43.736
some feedback on to what improvements

01:12:43.760 --> 01:12:46.456
can be made um and what corrective

01:12:46.480 --> 01:12:48.536
actions need to be made for a possible

01:12:48.560 --> 01:12:51.560
little little misstep. Um that's all the

01:12:51.600 --> 01:12:53.175
council's asking for. They're not I

01:12:53.199 --> 01:12:54.456
don't think they're asking for war and

01:12:54.480 --> 01:12:57.336
peace here and to identify failings of

01:12:57.360 --> 01:13:00.056
council. Um but it is essential that

01:13:00.080 --> 01:13:02.296
these kind of things are consulted for

01:13:02.320 --> 01:13:04.616
and I think um any amendment that was

01:13:04.640 --> 01:13:06.056
put up to remove that would not be

01:13:06.080 --> 01:13:07.576
supported by me but this motion as a

01:13:07.600 --> 01:13:09.736
whole is going to be supported by me.

01:13:09.760 --> 01:13:10.776
Thank you.

01:13:10.800 --> 01:13:12.856
Thank you. Councelor Broadman, you have

01:13:12.880 --> 01:13:15.655
a question. and council MacDonald

01:13:15.679 --> 01:13:18.679
propose a friendly amendment which

01:13:19.360 --> 01:13:22.360
council wouse had um flag may be

01:13:23.120 --> 01:13:25.576
forthcoming and that is on the basis

01:13:25.600 --> 01:13:28.600
that I don't believe we need um you know

01:13:28.880 --> 01:13:31.256
months and months to reconsider this

01:13:31.280 --> 01:13:34.280
matter that the question of number three

01:13:34.880 --> 01:13:37.256
ought become moot

01:13:37.280 --> 01:13:40.280
 that  the extent definition of cat

01:13:41.520 --> 01:13:44.520
10's  in in the policy. Um I would

01:13:45.199 --> 01:13:48.199
hope that  it is as I said moot  and

01:13:48.480 --> 01:13:51.016
wonder whether council ward house 

01:13:51.040 --> 01:13:53.016
through you may and the second would

01:13:53.040 --> 01:13:56.040
entertain the removal of that  if

01:13:56.480 --> 01:13:59.480
nothing else than to drive the urgency.

01:14:01.120 --> 01:14:02.936
Council Ward House, simple yes or no,

01:14:02.960 --> 01:14:03.736
please.

01:14:03.760 --> 01:14:04.695
Yes.

01:14:04.719 --> 01:14:05.976
Council Broadbent.

01:14:06.000 --> 01:14:06.616
Grandy.

01:14:06.640 --> 01:14:09.016
Grundy. Apologies. Turn your mic.

01:14:09.040 --> 01:14:10.215
Councelor Broadbent.

01:14:10.239 --> 01:14:11.896
Okay. Minute take or delete number

01:14:11.920 --> 01:14:13.896
three. All right. We need need to have

01:14:13.920 --> 01:14:16.536
another speaker. Councelor Preston.

01:14:16.560 --> 01:14:19.016
Um Tany, I think we need to probably

01:14:19.040 --> 01:14:22.040
revisit a few ideas here. Um policy

01:14:23.199 --> 01:14:25.816
in general provides a  parameters and

01:14:25.840 --> 01:14:28.536
guidelines for operational um decision

01:14:28.560 --> 01:14:31.560
making. Um it's not um it's not immo im

01:14:34.560 --> 01:14:37.560
immutable and it's and and it's not law.

01:14:38.400 --> 01:14:40.776
Um but it does provide guidelines for 

01:14:40.800 --> 01:14:43.800
for for operations. Um what we need to

01:14:44.400 --> 01:14:46.936
be careful here um is is getting the

01:14:46.960 --> 01:14:49.655
right balance between what we and the

01:14:49.679 --> 01:14:52.679
community might want and what is  what

01:14:53.920 --> 01:14:55.976
what what what's realistically able to

01:14:56.000 --> 01:14:58.296
be provided both legally and financially

01:14:58.320 --> 01:15:01.320
by council. Um so  we need to be a

01:15:02.239 --> 01:15:05.239
little bit careful. Um yes there was a

01:15:05.840 --> 01:15:08.840
um um a consultation period. There were

01:15:10.239 --> 01:15:12.456
some flaws in the consultation period.

01:15:12.480 --> 01:15:13.976
There was a secondary consultation

01:15:14.000 --> 01:15:17.000
period. Um we we've heard quite a lot

01:15:19.120 --> 01:15:22.056
from from  from constituents. I've

01:15:22.080 --> 01:15:24.135
I've read through quite a lot of the 

01:15:24.159 --> 01:15:27.096
the the the submissions um and they're

01:15:27.120 --> 01:15:29.736
valid and they're  they're necessary

01:15:29.760 --> 01:15:31.576
and they're they're they're 

01:15:31.600 --> 01:15:34.376
important, but a lot of them are really

01:15:34.400 --> 01:15:37.400
specific to individual roads.  and

01:15:38.719 --> 01:15:41.016
that's not something that we can in in

01:15:41.040 --> 01:15:43.976
encapsulate into a policy. We need to

01:15:44.000 --> 01:15:47.000
have a more general um look at at at

01:15:47.120 --> 01:15:50.120
what it is. Um  the  community input

01:15:53.440 --> 01:15:56.440
that we that um  wasn't lost.

01:15:58.800 --> 01:16:01.655
 it was considered um but there was an

01:16:01.679 --> 01:16:04.296
administrative error. Now it certainly

01:16:04.320 --> 01:16:07.320
does not require what's now.3 in this

01:16:08.400 --> 01:16:10.056
and I think the  the general manager

01:16:10.080 --> 01:16:13.080
has given us a a perfectly reasonable um

01:16:13.199 --> 01:16:16.199
explanation of that. Um a a

01:16:17.520 --> 01:16:20.520
witch hunt investigation is is is  is

01:16:20.719 --> 01:16:23.719
completely um over the top. Um I would

01:16:24.480 --> 01:16:27.480
suggest that u that we should I'll offer

01:16:27.679 --> 01:16:29.416
it as a friendly amendment. I suspect I

01:16:29.440 --> 01:16:31.655
know how it'll be received but we remove

01:16:31.679 --> 01:16:33.655
three and just go with one and two.

01:16:33.679 --> 01:16:35.576
Okay. I'll ask councelor waterhouse if

01:16:35.600 --> 01:16:37.416
you accept and councelor gr if I accept

01:16:37.440 --> 01:16:40.440
the delion of what's now number three.

01:16:42.159 --> 01:16:43.976
That's a no. Council Preston's going to

01:16:44.000 --> 01:16:45.496
move it as an amendment. Seconded by

01:16:45.520 --> 01:16:47.976
councelor Wilson. Councelor Preston.

01:16:48.000 --> 01:16:51.000
 yes. I I have not much more to to I I

01:16:51.199 --> 01:16:52.536
do think there's there's there's more

01:16:52.560 --> 01:16:53.816
work that needs to be done on this

01:16:53.840 --> 01:16:55.736
policy, but we do need to understand

01:16:55.760 --> 01:16:57.655
that it's a policy. We're not writing

01:16:57.679 --> 01:17:00.679
law here. Um we are giving a a set of

01:17:01.360 --> 01:17:03.816
guidelines under which the  the

01:17:03.840 --> 01:17:05.816
general manager and staff can operate

01:17:05.840 --> 01:17:07.816
and that's we need to bear that in mind

01:17:07.840 --> 01:17:09.175
when we're making these sorts of

01:17:09.199 --> 01:17:12.199
decisions. Um  so  no no requirement

01:17:13.520 --> 01:17:15.976
for a um an investigation. We've had

01:17:16.000 --> 01:17:19.000
we've had that response to that. Um so I

01:17:19.600 --> 01:17:22.376
put that as a um  encourage you to

01:17:22.400 --> 01:17:23.496
support that.

01:17:23.520 --> 01:17:24.856
Thank you councelor Preston. Councelor

01:17:24.880 --> 01:17:27.816
Wilson.  thank you mayor.  happy to

01:17:27.840 --> 01:17:30.616
support the amendment. Um I see where

01:17:30.640 --> 01:17:33.175
the original movers were going.  the

01:17:33.199 --> 01:17:34.376
general manager has provided as

01:17:34.400 --> 01:17:35.816
councelor Preston's noted a good

01:17:35.840 --> 01:17:38.456
explanation.  I haven't can't remember

01:17:38.480 --> 01:17:40.856
many any actually situations where

01:17:40.880 --> 01:17:42.376
people have had misubmissions and

01:17:42.400 --> 01:17:44.695
things. It was a it was an error. I'm

01:17:44.719 --> 01:17:46.296
sure those that did it feel pretty bad

01:17:46.320 --> 01:17:48.135
about it. They've been publicly called

01:17:48.159 --> 01:17:49.896
out in their workplace. Not something

01:17:49.920 --> 01:17:51.416
that happens in many other workplaces to

01:17:51.440 --> 01:17:54.296
be honest. I know you you know I get it.

01:17:54.320 --> 01:17:56.135
But you think about your own workplace

01:17:56.159 --> 01:17:58.376
etc. Not often do you get called out on

01:17:58.400 --> 01:18:01.400
live live stream. Um and so I think the

01:18:01.600 --> 01:18:03.096
general manager and the staff involved

01:18:03.120 --> 01:18:05.655
is certainly  are fully aware of the

01:18:05.679 --> 01:18:08.679
flaw that's been made there. Um secondly

01:18:09.280 --> 01:18:12.280
I I do have there is a question like how

01:18:12.480 --> 01:18:14.536
do you like I I get it you live on a a

01:18:14.560 --> 01:18:17.096
really poor old re regional rural road

01:18:17.120 --> 01:18:19.175
unscheduled.  how do I get it on the

01:18:19.199 --> 01:18:22.199
scheduled list? Um so I'll be supporting

01:18:22.239 --> 01:18:24.456
this amendment. I think counselor

01:18:24.480 --> 01:18:27.096
waterhouse for his passion in this area.

01:18:27.120 --> 01:18:30.120
 but this can't go on forever. As I've

01:18:30.640 --> 01:18:33.416
said before, we have unique elements in

01:18:33.440 --> 01:18:35.655
our policy as others have pointed out,

01:18:35.679 --> 01:18:37.736
council grand has pointed out, but we

01:18:37.760 --> 01:18:39.816
are not alone in being a rural council

01:18:39.840 --> 01:18:41.576
trying to deal with unsealed roads and

01:18:41.600 --> 01:18:43.416
how we deal with all this sort of  and

01:18:43.440 --> 01:18:46.440
the the the old category 10  now, you

01:18:46.880 --> 01:18:48.856
know, if this one if ever gets endorsed

01:18:48.880 --> 01:18:51.736
would become unscheduled. So I think I

01:18:51.760 --> 01:18:54.760
think I want to give time  for the

01:18:54.800 --> 01:18:56.536
community  and for councelor

01:18:56.560 --> 01:18:59.016
Waterhouse and other councilors myself

01:18:59.040 --> 01:19:02.040
as well  to get to that place where we

01:19:02.560 --> 01:19:04.776
can get to it possibly imperfect for

01:19:04.800 --> 01:19:06.695
some in the community  but a better

01:19:06.719 --> 01:19:09.719
position and just to we did endorse just

01:19:10.159 --> 01:19:12.296
one final comment  to support council

01:19:12.320 --> 01:19:14.296
waterhouse in some way. We did endorse

01:19:14.320 --> 01:19:15.816
it out for consultation but I do

01:19:15.840 --> 01:19:17.416
remember the debate council waterhouse

01:19:17.440 --> 01:19:20.296
through you may sorry um it wasn't a you

01:19:20.320 --> 01:19:21.896
know a ringing sort of endorsement it

01:19:21.920 --> 01:19:23.336
was to put it back out and get some more

01:19:23.360 --> 01:19:25.576
feedback so I appreciate that so hence

01:19:25.600 --> 01:19:27.175
why I'm supporting councelor Preston's

01:19:27.199 --> 01:19:29.816
amendment thank you councelor Wilson

01:19:29.840 --> 01:19:30.936
councelor Grundy

01:19:30.960 --> 01:19:33.960
question please Mr. there. , and this

01:19:34.239 --> 01:19:36.536
is to the general manager. Where is the

01:19:36.560 --> 01:19:38.215
evidence that my submission has been

01:19:38.239 --> 01:19:40.536
considered?

01:19:40.560 --> 01:19:42.776
Keeping in mind mine was one that was

01:19:42.800 --> 01:19:45.800
misplaced or left off in error.

01:19:48.560 --> 01:19:49.655
General manager,

01:19:49.679 --> 01:19:51.336
I'll have to take that on notice. I

01:19:51.360 --> 01:19:53.496
didn't write the report and I'd have to

01:19:53.520 --> 01:19:55.096
find out what your sub get your

01:19:55.120 --> 01:19:57.096
submission and find out where you sent

01:19:57.120 --> 01:19:58.936
it and where it actually was.

01:19:58.960 --> 01:20:01.496
That's the point I'm trying to make. um

01:20:01.520 --> 01:20:04.056
because my submission did contain unique

01:20:04.080 --> 01:20:07.080
components that have not been 

01:20:07.440 --> 01:20:09.256
represented anywhere in the report

01:20:09.280 --> 01:20:11.336
suggesting that it has not been

01:20:11.360 --> 01:20:14.360
considered in any shape or form. So I

01:20:14.960 --> 01:20:17.016
can't see how the general manager can

01:20:17.040 --> 01:20:20.040
give asurances that all  submissions

01:20:20.480 --> 01:20:23.096
have been considered when I can

01:20:23.120 --> 01:20:25.496
categorically tell you I don't feel mine

01:20:25.520 --> 01:20:27.736
has I can't see any indication no

01:20:27.760 --> 01:20:29.976
evidence at all in the report that mine

01:20:30.000 --> 01:20:33.000
has been considered.  second question

01:20:33.440 --> 01:20:36.440
um again to the general manager where

01:20:37.120 --> 01:20:39.496
when the general manager suggested there

01:20:39.520 --> 01:20:42.520
have been approvals for S138

01:20:43.920 --> 01:20:46.920
 in the past is that for a residence

01:20:47.600 --> 01:20:50.600
or not?

01:20:51.360 --> 01:20:52.856
I think we're getting a little bit off

01:20:52.880 --> 01:20:53.496
track.

01:20:53.520 --> 01:20:54.695
Excuse me. I don't understand the

01:20:54.719 --> 01:20:57.336
question. It's for a road. You suggested

01:20:57.360 --> 01:20:59.896
general manager that um there have been

01:20:59.920 --> 01:21:02.920
approvals for S138

01:21:03.040 --> 01:21:06.040
um applications is are those approvals

01:21:06.880 --> 01:21:08.856
for residents or for contractors or

01:21:08.880 --> 01:21:11.880
others?

01:21:12.000 --> 01:21:14.296
Um it is relevant because it goes to the

01:21:14.320 --> 01:21:15.896
point I'm trying to make about this

01:21:15.920 --> 01:21:18.135
policy.

01:21:18.159 --> 01:21:20.695
So there is for a road from a property

01:21:20.719 --> 01:21:23.719
owner to undertake works on a road.

01:21:24.640 --> 01:21:27.640
So, yes, from a resident.

01:21:28.400 --> 01:21:29.976
, Mr. Mayor, I'm going to have to This

01:21:30.000 --> 01:21:32.376
is a a matter about a an operational

01:21:32.400 --> 01:21:34.296
matter and there's been a number, so I

01:21:34.320 --> 01:21:35.576
really can't answer this in public

01:21:35.600 --> 01:21:36.376
forum. Thank you.

01:21:36.400 --> 01:21:38.296
Thank you.

01:21:38.320 --> 01:21:39.256
All right, we're going to make a couple

01:21:39.280 --> 01:21:40.776
of very brief comments. So, hopefully we

01:21:40.800 --> 01:21:42.376
can move on. Everyone who thinks that

01:21:42.400 --> 01:21:43.655
their submission was overlooked, even

01:21:43.679 --> 01:21:44.936
though we've heard many times that they

01:21:44.960 --> 01:21:47.096
weren't, can be feel relieved that they

01:21:47.120 --> 01:21:48.376
are actually going to be reviewed as

01:21:48.400 --> 01:21:49.576
part of this workshop that we're going

01:21:49.600 --> 01:21:50.856
to go through. will go through every

01:21:50.880 --> 01:21:52.776
submission individually, have a look at

01:21:52.800 --> 01:21:54.376
them. Have their concerns been addressed

01:21:54.400 --> 01:21:55.736
in the policy or not. That's the whole

01:21:55.760 --> 01:21:57.736
point of deferring and go through this

01:21:57.760 --> 01:22:00.296
workshop. That's why we don't need.3 up

01:22:00.320 --> 01:22:02.296
there on the board. Further speakers on

01:22:02.320 --> 01:22:04.615
the amendment. Council Waterhouse.

01:22:04.639 --> 01:22:07.639
Thank you. Um it's it's not really I

01:22:07.840 --> 01:22:08.856
think it's probably a comment rather

01:22:08.880 --> 01:22:11.576
than a speaker against or for it. But um

01:22:11.600 --> 01:22:13.816
what my concern was about the optics of

01:22:13.840 --> 01:22:16.695
it all and that if we were seen to be

01:22:16.719 --> 01:22:18.456
having a full investigation as to what

01:22:18.480 --> 01:22:20.376
went wrong and and we make sure it won't

01:22:20.400 --> 01:22:23.256
happen again. We take um community

01:22:23.280 --> 01:22:25.655
consultation very seriously and I've

01:22:25.679 --> 01:22:28.056
just spent um

01:22:28.080 --> 01:22:29.816
a fair bit of energy getting to as many

01:22:29.840 --> 01:22:31.655
community meetings as as humanly

01:22:31.679 --> 01:22:34.056
possible. I lost count. I think I went

01:22:34.080 --> 01:22:37.080
to four. Um but um out of six I think.

01:22:38.560 --> 01:22:41.416
Um and at I think everyone I talked

01:22:41.440 --> 01:22:44.440
about how we we the collective we are

01:22:44.880 --> 01:22:46.615
very concerned to make sure we got

01:22:46.639 --> 01:22:47.816
really good connection with our

01:22:47.840 --> 01:22:49.976
communities and we got great response

01:22:50.000 --> 01:22:52.215
from the people in the rooms about

01:22:52.239 --> 01:22:54.856
budgeting etc etc and that there's this

01:22:54.880 --> 01:22:56.456
great sense that they've they've got a

01:22:56.480 --> 01:22:59.016
say but then then this comes up and and

01:22:59.040 --> 01:23:00.456
I just got the feeling that that it

01:23:00.480 --> 01:23:02.856
wasn't. So that's really why I I felt

01:23:02.880 --> 01:23:05.016
that that was a part of ma making it

01:23:05.040 --> 01:23:06.615
look like we're really taking this very

01:23:06.639 --> 01:23:09.639
seriously. Um but as long as those two

01:23:10.239 --> 01:23:13.239
get through um I can live with it. Okay.

01:23:14.159 --> 01:23:15.496
Is there any further speakers on the

01:23:15.520 --> 01:23:18.520
amendment? Council MacDonald

01:23:18.639 --> 01:23:21.639
to labor this point on on on the removal

01:23:22.000 --> 01:23:25.000
of um of section three sorry or or item

01:23:25.040 --> 01:23:28.040
three. Um I I think it's you know I've

01:23:29.040 --> 01:23:31.896
tried to look at it as a um in a

01:23:31.920 --> 01:23:34.376
reasonable way um through through my

01:23:34.400 --> 01:23:36.776
lens and not through how I want to

01:23:36.800 --> 01:23:38.856
perceive other people maybe you know

01:23:38.880 --> 01:23:41.880
feeling but other rather the  the

01:23:42.000 --> 01:23:44.056
words which councelor waterhouse put

01:23:44.080 --> 01:23:46.936
forward the reality is um submissions

01:23:46.960 --> 01:23:48.936
which were missed included those of

01:23:48.960 --> 01:23:51.096
council wardous and councelor Grundy and

01:23:51.120 --> 01:23:53.336
that is indeed how that was

01:23:53.360 --> 01:23:54.695
council I'm going to I'm going to stop

01:23:54.719 --> 01:23:56.615
you council is talking that that

01:23:56.639 --> 01:23:58.776
submissions were missed is not factually

01:23:58.800 --> 01:24:01.016
correct. All submissions all submissions

01:24:01.040 --> 01:24:02.936
were received. All that was missed was

01:24:02.960 --> 01:24:05.016
attaching them onto the website and and

01:24:05.040 --> 01:24:06.376
sending them to councils when the first

01:24:06.400 --> 01:24:08.536
thing once they realized a mistake it

01:24:08.560 --> 01:24:11.016
was corrected as quickly as I humanly

01:24:11.040 --> 01:24:12.695
possible. You've been explained that

01:24:12.719 --> 01:24:14.936
multiple times.

01:24:14.960 --> 01:24:16.215
Thank you.

01:24:16.239 --> 01:24:19.239
I'm sorry. Do I have the call?

01:24:19.280 --> 01:24:21.256
You do, but you can't you can't say

01:24:21.280 --> 01:24:22.695
submissions were missed when when

01:24:22.719 --> 01:24:23.976
they're not when that's been clarified

01:24:24.000 --> 01:24:26.376
by the general manager.

01:24:26.400 --> 01:24:29.400
Mayor, I I I I'll attempt to

01:24:29.840 --> 01:24:32.840
use  to use different phrasiology.

01:24:33.760 --> 01:24:36.760
The report stated a total number which

01:24:37.520 --> 01:24:39.256
had been considered, not just

01:24:39.280 --> 01:24:42.215
attachments.

01:24:42.239 --> 01:24:45.239
that report or the numbers stated in the

01:24:45.440 --> 01:24:48.440
report and in the latter report were

01:24:49.040 --> 01:24:52.040
still deficient. Those additional

01:24:53.600 --> 01:24:56.536
non submissions which were not initially

01:24:56.560 --> 01:24:58.296
attached

01:24:58.320 --> 01:25:00.376
I am not attempting to quibble on this

01:25:00.400 --> 01:25:03.400
question.

01:25:03.920 --> 01:25:06.920
There is a reasonable expectation that

01:25:07.520 --> 01:25:10.520
the system works for our community and I

01:25:11.600 --> 01:25:14.600
would argue that were it not for the um

01:25:15.120 --> 01:25:17.655
happen stance of council waterhouse and

01:25:17.679 --> 01:25:20.456
 councelor Grundy having made

01:25:20.480 --> 01:25:23.096
submissions and those not being 

01:25:23.120 --> 01:25:25.655
attached we may not have known about it.

01:25:25.679 --> 01:25:27.655
I think it is reasonable that we know

01:25:27.679 --> 01:25:30.679
that our system works well

01:25:31.120 --> 01:25:34.120
and if indeed the general manager can

01:25:34.560 --> 01:25:37.560
give that assurance as I believe she has

01:25:37.920 --> 01:25:40.920
that the system does work and it was a

01:25:41.199 --> 01:25:43.016
matter of human error which is

01:25:43.040 --> 01:25:45.736
regrettable then we move forward. I was

01:25:45.760 --> 01:25:48.760
attempting before I was  

01:25:51.280 --> 01:25:53.416
when I first started speaking mayor to

01:25:53.440 --> 01:25:56.215
to make a reasonable point to see other

01:25:56.239 --> 01:25:59.096
people's concerns through a reasonable

01:25:59.120 --> 01:26:01.816
lens and that is how my comments ought

01:26:01.840 --> 01:26:04.840
be taken.

01:26:05.440 --> 01:26:07.096
Is there any further discussion on the

01:26:07.120 --> 01:26:09.175
amendment? No. I'm going to put the

01:26:09.199 --> 01:26:10.615
amendment. All those in favor of the

01:26:10.639 --> 01:26:12.615
amendment are councilors Livermore

01:26:12.639 --> 01:26:14.856
Preston Tascowski Willis Wilson and

01:26:14.880 --> 01:26:17.096
Winchester and against council Broadbent

01:26:17.120 --> 01:26:19.736
Grundy MacDonald at Waterhouse. I declare

01:26:19.760 --> 01:26:21.736
it carried. So f the amendment becomes a

01:26:21.760 --> 01:26:23.016
motion. If there's no further discussion

01:26:23.040 --> 01:26:24.215
I'm going to put the motion. All those

01:26:24.239 --> 01:26:26.376
in favor of councilors Broadbent

01:26:26.400 --> 01:26:29.400
Livermore MacDonald Preston Schwack it's

01:26:29.440 --> 01:26:31.175
unanimous and carried. Councilors at

01:26:31.199 --> 01:26:33.336
7:43 we pass 7:30. We're going to break

01:26:33.360 --> 01:26:35.016
for 10 minutes and we'll be back at

01:26:35.040 --> 01:26:37.816
7:53.

01:26:37.840 --> 01:26:39.655
Okay, councilors, we are back live. The

01:26:39.679 --> 01:26:42.056
next item for determination is 8.5, the

01:26:42.080 --> 01:26:44.615
policy review, street verge maintenance

01:26:44.639 --> 01:26:46.135
policy. You have a move, councelor

01:26:46.159 --> 01:26:47.816
Willis, seconded, councelor waterhouse.

01:26:47.840 --> 01:26:49.655
Councelor Willis.

01:26:49.679 --> 01:26:52.135
, thank you. I just had a a a quick

01:26:52.159 --> 01:26:54.536
question for the staff. Does this

01:26:54.560 --> 01:26:57.560
proposed split, you know, to um pull out

01:26:58.000 --> 01:27:00.215
the tree maintenance

01:27:00.239 --> 01:27:03.175
 mean that people will need to man to

01:27:03.199 --> 01:27:06.199
be across two different policies

01:27:06.480 --> 01:27:08.456
rather than having all the information

01:27:08.480 --> 01:27:10.296
about the street verge which is where

01:27:10.320 --> 01:27:13.320
the public street trees are will be in

01:27:13.440 --> 01:27:15.336
the one policy.

01:27:15.360 --> 01:27:17.416
Okay. General Mand is going to take that

01:27:17.440 --> 01:27:18.856
question.

01:27:18.880 --> 01:27:21.416
Mela Mela.

01:27:21.440 --> 01:27:24.440
Um through you Mr. Mayor. Um, yes.

01:27:25.600 --> 01:27:27.976
, and can I ask what do what's the

01:27:28.000 --> 01:27:31.000
staff thinking on the benefits of the

01:27:31.199 --> 01:27:34.199
policy split?

01:27:38.159 --> 01:27:39.576
Staff will take that on notice. Council

01:27:39.600 --> 01:27:42.600
Willis,

01:27:43.760 --> 01:27:46.215
I suppose. So

01:27:46.239 --> 01:27:49.239
 the excised segments of this pol

01:27:50.320 --> 01:27:53.256
draft policy will come back to us in a

01:27:53.280 --> 01:27:55.416
separate draft policy. So I guess that

01:27:55.440 --> 01:27:58.440
will outline the benefits but there's

01:27:58.560 --> 01:28:00.376
kind of no going back to stitch it into

01:28:00.400 --> 01:28:02.536
this policy.

01:28:02.560 --> 01:28:04.296
 three may I think it was detailed in

01:28:04.320 --> 01:28:06.936
the report about the why they wanted to

01:28:06.960 --> 01:28:09.016
separate tree management and as I

01:28:09.040 --> 01:28:10.615
understand it will be coming to the 13th

01:28:10.639 --> 01:28:13.639
of May council meeting. Thank you.

01:28:13.760 --> 01:28:15.896
Is there further discussion? Councelor

01:28:15.920 --> 01:28:18.135
Shriker.

01:28:18.159 --> 01:28:19.816
Yeah, just  I guess more notice than

01:28:19.840 --> 01:28:22.296
anything. Um on page 24, it talks about

01:28:22.320 --> 01:28:24.376
waste management brackets entirely new

01:28:24.400 --> 01:28:25.816
section closed brackets. And the third

01:28:25.840 --> 01:28:28.056
bullet point is time limits. Bins can

01:28:28.080 --> 01:28:29.496
only be placed out on the evening before

01:28:29.520 --> 01:28:31.336
and must be removed within 24 hours of

01:28:31.360 --> 01:28:33.655
servicing. So I'll just give a a 

01:28:33.679 --> 01:28:35.096
notice. I'll be making a public

01:28:35.120 --> 01:28:36.776
submission on this one. So you look out

01:28:36.800 --> 01:28:38.215
for it. Um because I think that's a

01:28:38.239 --> 01:28:40.456
little bit draconian.  because if I'm

01:28:40.480 --> 01:28:41.655
leaving early in the morning, I'm not

01:28:41.679 --> 01:28:42.536
going to be back till tomorrow or

01:28:42.560 --> 01:28:43.416
something. I'm going to put it out in

01:28:43.440 --> 01:28:44.936
the morning sort of thing. So, if I did

01:28:44.960 --> 01:28:46.215
that then I'd be in contravention of

01:28:46.239 --> 01:28:47.256
this and I'm going to get a fine in the

01:28:47.280 --> 01:28:49.655
post which I don't think is very fair.

01:28:49.679 --> 01:28:51.336
Thank you, councelor Schwiker. Is there

01:28:51.360 --> 01:28:53.256
further discussion? If not, we'll put

01:28:53.280 --> 01:28:55.655
the motion. All those in favor? That's

01:28:55.679 --> 01:28:57.976
unanimous and carried. 8.6 is

01:28:58.000 --> 01:29:00.056
application for cultural gr cultural

01:29:00.080 --> 01:29:02.376
grant braidwood lines club. Move council

01:29:02.400 --> 01:29:03.816
waterhouse second council Broadbent.

01:29:03.840 --> 01:29:06.135
Council waterhouse. Thanks Mr. Mayor. is

01:29:06.159 --> 01:29:08.056
this a very worthy cause and it's not a

01:29:08.080 --> 01:29:10.536
huge amount of money really. Um and it

01:29:10.560 --> 01:29:12.056
goes a long way. If you've seen the

01:29:12.080 --> 01:29:13.976
little books that they produce with some

01:29:14.000 --> 01:29:16.135
really really fine writing in them, this

01:29:16.159 --> 01:29:18.776
is support for young people  in their

01:29:18.800 --> 01:29:21.175
literary

01:29:21.199 --> 01:29:23.576
early years. So, and  they've got some

01:29:23.600 --> 01:29:25.976
wonderful um judges mostly who live

01:29:26.000 --> 01:29:28.215
around the Bradwood area um published

01:29:28.239 --> 01:29:30.135
authors in their own right. It's great

01:29:30.159 --> 01:29:32.056
and I highly recommend it.

01:29:32.080 --> 01:29:33.336
Thank you. Council Waterhouse, Councelor

01:29:33.360 --> 01:29:33.816
Broadbent,

01:29:33.840 --> 01:29:35.896
very quickly to say um obviously

01:29:35.920 --> 01:29:37.896
extending on what  councelor

01:29:37.920 --> 01:29:40.776
Waterhouse has said,  we are in an AI

01:29:40.800 --> 01:29:42.536
generation where people where young

01:29:42.560 --> 01:29:45.496
people writing is challenging enough. Um

01:29:45.520 --> 01:29:47.256
I think anything we can do to support

01:29:47.280 --> 01:29:48.856
young people learning how learning to

01:29:48.880 --> 01:29:51.175
write properly um is pretty important

01:29:51.199 --> 01:29:52.776
very important stuff.

01:29:52.800 --> 01:29:54.215
Thank you councel. Is there further

01:29:54.239 --> 01:29:55.496
discussion? If not, we'll put the

01:29:55.520 --> 01:29:58.520
motion. All those in favor?  everyone

01:29:58.960 --> 01:30:00.296
except councelor Grundy and those

01:30:00.320 --> 01:30:02.215
against councelor Grundy. I declare it

01:30:02.239 --> 01:30:05.239
carried. The next item is 8.7 cultural

01:30:05.520 --> 01:30:07.576
gifts and donations policy. Do we have a

01:30:07.600 --> 01:30:09.736
mover as per the recommendation?

01:30:09.760 --> 01:30:11.016
Councelor Wilson, second to councelor

01:30:11.040 --> 01:30:12.776
Waterhouse. Is there discussion on this

01:30:12.800 --> 01:30:15.416
item? Councilors councelor Grundy

01:30:15.440 --> 01:30:17.816
question. , I wonder if the word

01:30:17.840 --> 01:30:20.135
management of cultural grants and

01:30:20.159 --> 01:30:22.376
donations policy might be considered

01:30:22.400 --> 01:30:25.256
just simply because um could there be

01:30:25.280 --> 01:30:28.280
confusion between cultural grants 

01:30:28.639 --> 01:30:31.639
cultural gifts and donations to QPRC not

01:30:32.320 --> 01:30:33.816
by

01:30:33.840 --> 01:30:36.840
QPRC? Just a question.

01:30:39.280 --> 01:30:41.416
Can you just point out specifically

01:30:41.440 --> 01:30:42.936
where you're talking to in the is in the

01:30:42.960 --> 01:30:44.615
pulse or in the business paper?

01:30:44.639 --> 01:30:47.639
Yeah. So,  it's just really just

01:30:48.239 --> 01:30:51.239
adding the word management of to  to

01:30:53.280 --> 01:30:56.280
the the title of the policy endorse the

01:30:56.960 --> 01:30:59.416
um management of cultural grants and

01:30:59.440 --> 01:31:02.135
donations policy because it's not clear

01:31:02.159 --> 01:31:04.376
I don't think anyway

01:31:04.400 --> 01:31:07.400
that um it might be misunderstood that

01:31:07.520 --> 01:31:10.520
this is about donations

01:31:10.960 --> 01:31:13.960
um to us not by us. Okay.

01:31:16.880 --> 01:31:18.776
Yeah.

01:31:18.800 --> 01:31:19.976
Okay. I just asked the general manager

01:31:20.000 --> 01:31:21.576
if there any issue if we

01:31:21.600 --> 01:31:22.856
do the renaming.

01:31:22.880 --> 01:31:24.456
That's fine. All right. So, we'll update

01:31:24.480 --> 01:31:26.135
the motion to reflect that and we'll

01:31:26.159 --> 01:31:29.159
update the um the policy that's about to

01:31:29.440 --> 01:31:30.615
go out on exhibition.

01:31:30.639 --> 01:31:32.615
Y.

01:31:32.639 --> 01:31:35.576
Yeah. Thank you, Council Wilson.

01:31:35.600 --> 01:31:37.336
Is there further discussion? We'll put

01:31:37.360 --> 01:31:39.016
the motion all in favor. That's

01:31:39.040 --> 01:31:41.736
unanimous and carried. 8.8 Eight is the

01:31:41.760 --> 01:31:43.816
post exhibition policy report roadside

01:31:43.840 --> 01:31:46.056
vegetation management policy. We have a

01:31:46.080 --> 01:31:47.736
mover.

01:31:47.760 --> 01:31:49.096
Councelor Wilson, second to council

01:31:49.120 --> 01:31:51.175
MacDonald. Is there discussion? Councelor

01:31:51.199 --> 01:31:51.576
Wilson.

01:31:51.600 --> 01:31:53.336
Not a lot. Just a quick  shout out to

01:31:53.360 --> 01:31:55.976
staff for their work along the  ED 

01:31:56.000 --> 01:31:57.576
doing some of the trimming there. 

01:31:57.600 --> 01:31:59.896
obviously part of the verge, but  

01:31:59.920 --> 01:32:01.175
there was some conversation about this

01:32:01.199 --> 01:32:02.695
last time, so happy to get it out. Thank

01:32:02.719 --> 01:32:03.576
you.

01:32:03.600 --> 01:32:04.936
Thanks, Council MacDonald.

01:32:04.960 --> 01:32:07.336
 thanks, mayor. This um was a matter

01:32:07.360 --> 01:32:09.496
which in fact was raised at the womb

01:32:09.520 --> 01:32:10.936
community meeting last night which

01:32:10.960 --> 01:32:13.736
councelor waterhouse and GM and um the

01:32:13.760 --> 01:32:16.760
CFO the director of corporate services

01:32:16.960 --> 01:32:19.416
 and the director of infrastructure

01:32:19.440 --> 01:32:21.256
was there too. So we all sort of

01:32:21.280 --> 01:32:23.816
understood and I think from different

01:32:23.840 --> 01:32:26.840
parts of the business. Um it it was good

01:32:26.880 --> 01:32:28.856
to hear how some of the constituents saw

01:32:28.880 --> 01:32:31.880
that as relevant.  one with respect to

01:32:32.719 --> 01:32:35.719
um the environment and  and and how we

01:32:36.560 --> 01:32:39.560
limit the opportunities for wildlife to

01:32:39.920 --> 01:32:42.376
be drawn to the roads edge as  council

01:32:42.400 --> 01:32:45.400
wardous and I know  relatively well.

01:32:45.840 --> 01:32:48.840
Um that is  pretty undesirable. And

01:32:49.600 --> 01:32:52.536
then these there's the question of how

01:32:52.560 --> 01:32:55.560
the verge or the roadside um um  is

01:32:58.480 --> 01:33:01.480
maintained as it relates to the the the

01:33:02.159 --> 01:33:03.816
structure the the main structure the

01:33:03.840 --> 01:33:06.840
road proper  and um and I think

01:33:08.800 --> 01:33:11.416
there's certainly areas there's a great

01:33:11.440 --> 01:33:14.440
variance of  of the expectation and

01:33:14.719 --> 01:33:17.719
the practical um need for different

01:33:17.840 --> 01:33:20.840
types of verge management. Um we

01:33:21.120 --> 01:33:24.120
obviously are looking at the um the

01:33:24.480 --> 01:33:26.856
introduction or the trial of the virtual

01:33:26.880 --> 01:33:29.880
fencing  on a part of um of Max Reef I

01:33:31.679 --> 01:33:34.536
believe. Um

01:33:34.560 --> 01:33:37.560
it is it is part of this part of this um

01:33:38.320 --> 01:33:40.936
this solution.  but I don't think it's

01:33:40.960 --> 01:33:43.960
all of it. it is   roadside um ver

01:33:45.040 --> 01:33:48.040
or verge um vegetation management is is

01:33:49.440 --> 01:33:51.816
going to be essential to  to reducing

01:33:51.840 --> 01:33:54.695
those  those animal collisions I would

01:33:54.719 --> 01:33:56.615
argue and something which many people in

01:33:56.639 --> 01:33:59.639
the community  feel strongly about.

01:33:59.760 --> 01:34:01.816
Thank you councelor MacDonald. Is there

01:34:01.840 --> 01:34:04.296
further discussion? If not we'll put the

01:34:04.320 --> 01:34:06.776
motion. All those in favor that's

01:34:06.800 --> 01:34:09.256
unanimous and carried. 8.9 is the

01:34:09.280 --> 01:34:11.976
investment report March 2026 move

01:34:12.000 --> 01:34:13.256
councelor MacDonald second to councelor

01:34:13.280 --> 01:34:15.175
Wilson is there discussion counc

01:34:15.199 --> 01:34:15.816
MacDonald

01:34:15.840 --> 01:34:17.736
 there is mayor look there there is a

01:34:17.760 --> 01:34:20.760
a loss in our investments um for anyone

01:34:21.600 --> 01:34:24.600
who has any view on  any investment

01:34:24.880 --> 01:34:26.695
markets  it would be utterly

01:34:26.719 --> 01:34:29.256
unsurprising and that  regrettably is

01:34:29.280 --> 01:34:31.976
to the tune of almost $300,000 and I

01:34:32.000 --> 01:34:35.000
expect um  no single investor  with

01:34:35.440 --> 01:34:38.440
a diverse portfolio is seeing  um

01:34:39.040 --> 01:34:41.016
we're certainly noting a fair bit of 

01:34:41.040 --> 01:34:43.096
red ink and  and I think it's just

01:34:43.120 --> 01:34:45.175
important that people in the in the

01:34:45.199 --> 01:34:46.936
community and you know with even within

01:34:46.960 --> 01:34:49.256
this chamber understand that we are

01:34:49.280 --> 01:34:51.816
susceptible as an investor to global

01:34:51.840 --> 01:34:54.840
conditions um far outside of our

01:34:55.120 --> 01:34:56.615
control.

01:34:56.639 --> 01:34:57.976
Thank you councelor MacDonald. Is there

01:34:58.000 --> 01:35:00.215
further discussion? If not we'll put the

01:35:00.239 --> 01:35:02.056
motion. All those in favor that's

01:35:02.080 --> 01:35:03.896
unanimous and carried. All right,

01:35:03.920 --> 01:35:04.936
council. To make sure we get the

01:35:04.960 --> 01:35:06.215
business through the business paper for

01:35:06.239 --> 01:35:07.096
the night, I'm going to move a

01:35:07.120 --> 01:35:08.936
procedural motion to bring forward item

01:35:08.960 --> 01:35:11.960
11.1 and then items 15.1 to 15.4. , do

01:35:14.159 --> 01:35:15.416
we have a second for that? Councelor

01:35:15.440 --> 01:35:16.856
MacDonald. And we'll put that motion. All

01:35:16.880 --> 01:35:19.096
in favor? That's unanimous and carried.

01:35:19.120 --> 01:35:20.695
So, the next item is going to be 11.1

01:35:20.719 --> 01:35:22.615
notice of motion. Jerry Bombber High

01:35:22.639 --> 01:35:24.215
School PNC Breakfast Club. Councelor

01:35:24.239 --> 01:35:25.416
Wilson, you're moving as per the

01:35:25.440 --> 01:35:26.215
business paper.

01:35:26.239 --> 01:35:27.175
I am. Thank you, Mayor.

01:35:27.199 --> 01:35:28.695
We have a second. , councelor

01:35:28.719 --> 01:35:31.096
Broadbent. Councelor Wilson.

01:35:31.120 --> 01:35:33.416
, thank you, Mayor.  given the size

01:35:33.440 --> 01:35:34.936
of the agenda, I'll try and keep my

01:35:34.960 --> 01:35:37.096
comments brief.  this one for me is

01:35:37.120 --> 01:35:39.016
similar to the Braidwood Lions Club that

01:35:39.040 --> 01:35:41.896
we just endorsed almost unanimously. Um

01:35:41.920 --> 01:35:44.920
it the high school PNC  makes a a a

01:35:46.320 --> 01:35:49.016
very important contribution  to the to

01:35:49.040 --> 01:35:51.416
the local  Gerabombra community. It's

01:35:51.440 --> 01:35:53.096
a big high school and I think Scott, the

01:35:53.120 --> 01:35:55.096
principal there  is doing good work

01:35:55.120 --> 01:35:56.615
and obviously the PNC is trying to work

01:35:56.639 --> 01:35:59.256
with the executive mayor  to make sure

01:35:59.280 --> 01:36:00.695
many of their kids start the day in a

01:36:00.719 --> 01:36:02.135
good place. Now, you can say, well,

01:36:02.159 --> 01:36:04.056
they're a PNC. , they should raise

01:36:04.080 --> 01:36:05.896
their own money and and they do, and

01:36:05.920 --> 01:36:07.016
they've actually acknowledged that in

01:36:07.040 --> 01:36:08.536
their submission, and they're actually

01:36:08.560 --> 01:36:09.655
going to contribute three of their

01:36:09.679 --> 01:36:11.655
dollars for one of ours to try and get a

01:36:11.679 --> 01:36:12.856
good community outcome. You could also

01:36:12.880 --> 01:36:14.135
make the same argument, to be frank,

01:36:14.159 --> 01:36:16.856
mayor, for the Braidwood  Lions Club,

01:36:16.880 --> 01:36:18.456
just run another barbecue, just, you

01:36:18.480 --> 01:36:20.056
know, put the tin down the down the main

01:36:20.080 --> 01:36:21.736
street when all those CBER drivers go

01:36:21.760 --> 01:36:24.695
through um on the way to the coast. But

01:36:24.719 --> 01:36:26.456
that's not how we run council. We look

01:36:26.480 --> 01:36:27.976
at each thing on their merit and go from

01:36:28.000 --> 01:36:30.215
there. Look, financially we we can

01:36:30.239 --> 01:36:32.376
afford this very small grant.  we have

01:36:32.400 --> 01:36:35.400
a a floating cash position of $3

01:36:35.440 --> 01:36:38.056
million. It's not inexpendable as  you

01:36:38.080 --> 01:36:39.336
know, we can't just keep spending money,

01:36:39.360 --> 01:36:40.776
but this is not a very big amount of

01:36:40.800 --> 01:36:42.856
that. Um and we are forecasting to

01:36:42.880 --> 01:36:44.536
maintain our cash position next year for

01:36:44.560 --> 01:36:46.536
those that are  following along on the

01:36:46.560 --> 01:36:48.695
quarterly budget reviews. Um the reason

01:36:48.719 --> 01:36:50.856
I've asked this to be in the 25 to 26

01:36:50.880 --> 01:36:53.175
year as in now. You may remember this

01:36:53.199 --> 01:36:55.496
was considered as part of our donations

01:36:55.520 --> 01:36:58.296
 policy from last um was earlier in

01:36:58.320 --> 01:37:00.615
the year.  we expanded it to one other

01:37:00.639 --> 01:37:03.416
school but we  we we we parked this

01:37:03.440 --> 01:37:06.215
one and and the the PNC as you can see

01:37:06.239 --> 01:37:08.215
in the submission from um Miss Miss

01:37:08.239 --> 01:37:10.615
Prescott has made the case actually they

01:37:10.639 --> 01:37:13.639
think they make a contribution to  the

01:37:13.679 --> 01:37:15.736
local community. So I won't go on much

01:37:15.760 --> 01:37:16.856
more than that. I'll leave it at that.

01:37:16.880 --> 01:37:17.576
Thank you.

01:37:17.600 --> 01:37:19.736
Thank you, Councelor Broadman.

01:37:19.760 --> 01:37:22.760
 I won't add anything more except to

01:37:22.960 --> 01:37:25.736
say um ironically breakfast clubs do

01:37:25.760 --> 01:37:28.135
come up when I talk to  people in the

01:37:28.159 --> 01:37:30.376
youth committee a couple of times. It's

01:37:30.400 --> 01:37:32.776
come up around um their value and how

01:37:32.800 --> 01:37:35.336
important they are. Um obviously um you

01:37:35.360 --> 01:37:37.336
know generally I don't think it's the

01:37:37.360 --> 01:37:38.695
council's role to be funding these kind

01:37:38.719 --> 01:37:41.655
of things, but um I do think in this

01:37:41.679 --> 01:37:43.896
situation given the history um it makes

01:37:43.920 --> 01:37:46.456
sense in this financial year. Thanks.

01:37:46.480 --> 01:37:49.336
Thank you, Council MacDonald.

01:37:49.360 --> 01:37:51.016
Thanks, Mayor. Look, I've spoken to

01:37:51.040 --> 01:37:53.416
Council Wilson that um and let him know

01:37:53.440 --> 01:37:55.976
that I I won't be supporting this. Um

01:37:56.000 --> 01:37:58.135
big supporter of PNC. Mayor, you and I

01:37:58.159 --> 01:37:59.816
have served on the same PNC and have

01:37:59.840 --> 01:38:02.695
done for some time.  and we know what

01:38:02.719 --> 01:38:05.719
it takes to  to um to earn money or

01:38:07.199 --> 01:38:10.199
raise money for the schools.  we know

01:38:10.239 --> 01:38:13.239
how hard um typically a small cohort of

01:38:13.840 --> 01:38:16.840
parents  work.  to  to bring that

01:38:17.520 --> 01:38:20.520
money  to augment um what is probably

01:38:21.440 --> 01:38:23.976
manifestally inadequate funding  which

01:38:24.000 --> 01:38:25.655
is delivered by the state government to

01:38:25.679 --> 01:38:28.135
do everything outside of the the three

01:38:28.159 --> 01:38:31.159
Rs of  of of education.

01:38:32.080 --> 01:38:34.695
Um

01:38:34.719 --> 01:38:36.456
look

01:38:36.480 --> 01:38:39.480
we have  I think with 17 schools in

01:38:39.760 --> 01:38:42.215
QBRC for 13 government for

01:38:42.239 --> 01:38:45.239
non-government. Um so

01:38:47.199 --> 01:38:50.199
you know each each school does their own

01:38:50.239 --> 01:38:52.856
activities to to to raise their money.

01:38:52.880 --> 01:38:54.536
Um particularly the the government

01:38:54.560 --> 01:38:57.416
schools. Um

01:38:57.440 --> 01:39:00.440
I  have a child who benefits from um

01:39:01.199 --> 01:39:02.776
you know going to a school that does

01:39:02.800 --> 01:39:05.175
have a a a breakfast style arrangement.

01:39:05.199 --> 01:39:08.135
 it's not paid for by the PNC.  it's

01:39:08.159 --> 01:39:11.159
in fact paid for by  presumably some

01:39:11.520 --> 01:39:14.520
sort of  internal  fund which the

01:39:14.800 --> 01:39:17.800
principal dains. I don't think it's it's

01:39:18.080 --> 01:39:20.456
unimportant. I should use um double

01:39:20.480 --> 01:39:22.296
negative. I think it is important that

01:39:22.320 --> 01:39:24.615
that kids do have the the right start to

01:39:24.639 --> 01:39:26.936
the day. Look, I'm a big supporter of

01:39:26.960 --> 01:39:29.960
Jer High PNC and  and and I suspect um

01:39:30.880 --> 01:39:33.256
I've  through the course of cake

01:39:33.280 --> 01:39:35.736
stores and what have you probably

01:39:35.760 --> 01:39:38.376
contributed $899

01:39:38.400 --> 01:39:41.400
 which you know my waistline  thanks

01:39:41.600 --> 01:39:44.600
the  thanks the Jerro High um PNC for.

01:39:46.320 --> 01:39:48.776
And look, I would be happy to um

01:39:48.800 --> 01:39:51.800
notwithstanding my um view that this

01:39:52.080 --> 01:39:55.080
ought not be a council donation.  I

01:39:55.760 --> 01:39:58.760
will um what is it 11 of us divisible by

01:39:59.920 --> 01:40:02.135
900 bucks? What's about 80 80 odd

01:40:02.159 --> 01:40:03.736
dollars? I'll go and make a donation of

01:40:03.760 --> 01:40:06.760
80 bucks to the to the PNC um as a as a

01:40:07.679 --> 01:40:10.679
sign of my support for them. Um but

01:40:11.040 --> 01:40:13.095
noting that I don't necessarily think

01:40:13.119 --> 01:40:15.095
that this is where council ought to be

01:40:15.119 --> 01:40:16.135
playing.

01:40:16.159 --> 01:40:17.416
Thank you, Council MacDonald. Council

01:40:17.440 --> 01:40:18.536
Preston.

01:40:18.560 --> 01:40:21.256
Um I think Council MacDonald has just 

01:40:21.280 --> 01:40:24.056
illustrated a position of privilege um

01:40:24.080 --> 01:40:27.080
because he can throw in 90 bucks without

01:40:27.920 --> 01:40:30.456
 without even considering it too too

01:40:30.480 --> 01:40:32.215
stressfully. And good on you. And and

01:40:32.239 --> 01:40:33.256
and you should.

01:40:33.280 --> 01:40:35.336
I'm sorry. I I on a point of order. You

01:40:35.360 --> 01:40:37.816
have a point of order. C I do. It's just

01:40:37.840 --> 01:40:40.840
been asserted that I'm some wealthy, you

01:40:41.040 --> 01:40:43.416
know, person who h has no care

01:40:43.440 --> 01:40:46.440
whatsoever. I'm paying $3.13 a liter on

01:40:46.880 --> 01:40:49.416
on diesel. And if you think my money is

01:40:49.440 --> 01:40:50.456
flippant,

01:40:50.480 --> 01:40:51.896
No, there is. Well, thank you. I didn't

01:40:51.920 --> 01:40:54.920
know it was for you to judge. Um, mayor,

01:40:55.199 --> 01:40:57.175
I I I think it's reasonable that

01:40:57.199 --> 01:41:00.199
councelor um Preston not make um

01:41:00.560 --> 01:41:03.560
personal reflections  which

01:41:04.239 --> 01:41:07.239
frankly are factually inaccurate and 

01:41:08.159 --> 01:41:09.655
and offensive at least.

01:41:09.679 --> 01:41:11.416
Okay. Thank you, councelor. Councelor

01:41:11.440 --> 01:41:13.095
Preston,

01:41:13.119 --> 01:41:15.496
am I is there a point of order?

01:41:15.520 --> 01:41:16.936
You heard me. Do you want me to say it

01:41:16.960 --> 01:41:18.296
again?

01:41:18.320 --> 01:41:20.056
So councilors, if you got a point of

01:41:20.080 --> 01:41:21.256
order, you have to be very specific

01:41:21.280 --> 01:41:22.376
about where in the code of meeting

01:41:22.400 --> 01:41:24.936
practice there's been an issue. I know

01:41:24.960 --> 01:41:27.175
that councelor Preston has made a combat

01:41:27.199 --> 01:41:29.175
council MacDonald

01:41:29.199 --> 01:41:31.816
displaying privilege something in that

01:41:31.840 --> 01:41:33.496
regard. Perhaps councelor Preston may

01:41:33.520 --> 01:41:35.576
choose his words a little bit more

01:41:35.600 --> 01:41:38.600
wisely, but that's up to him. Council

01:41:39.199 --> 01:41:41.496
Preston,

01:41:41.520 --> 01:41:44.520
um I I would be in a position to very

01:41:44.719 --> 01:41:47.719
easily donate  $90

01:41:48.960 --> 01:41:51.960
to the  to the PNC, but that's a a

01:41:52.480 --> 01:41:55.256
position of my privilege.

01:41:55.280 --> 01:41:57.336
I am able to do that. There are a lot

01:41:57.360 --> 01:41:59.256
The reason that we have breakfast clubs

01:41:59.280 --> 01:42:01.976
in these schools is is an equity issue.

01:42:02.000 --> 01:42:05.000
It allows students to  fully

01:42:05.360 --> 01:42:08.360
participate in their education because

01:42:08.960 --> 01:42:11.095
so many of them and it it is such a

01:42:11.119 --> 01:42:13.816
large number come to  come to school

01:42:13.840 --> 01:42:16.776
without having had breakfast and it's

01:42:16.800 --> 01:42:19.016
not a lot of them it's not through

01:42:19.040 --> 01:42:20.615
choice

01:42:20.639 --> 01:42:22.135
it's because they don't have the

01:42:22.159 --> 01:42:25.016
facility at home to do it. So, this sort

01:42:25.040 --> 01:42:28.040
of um minuscule offering from from

01:42:30.080 --> 01:42:32.135
council that will allow that equity

01:42:32.159 --> 01:42:34.376
issue to be addressed um is something

01:42:34.400 --> 01:42:36.776
that councils absolutely should be doing

01:42:36.800 --> 01:42:39.576
so our students can participate fully in

01:42:39.600 --> 01:42:41.496
their education.

01:42:41.520 --> 01:42:42.776
Thank you, Council President. Councelor

01:42:42.800 --> 01:42:43.816
Willis.

01:42:43.840 --> 01:42:45.816
 yes, thank you. I'll be supporting

01:42:45.840 --> 01:42:48.376
this. It is a small sum of money and the

01:42:48.400 --> 01:42:51.336
the PNC is matching that effort with

01:42:51.360 --> 01:42:54.135
their fundraising. Personally, I I feel

01:42:54.159 --> 01:42:57.159
affronted that anyone in this country 

01:42:57.840 --> 01:43:00.296
can't have breakfast. And there's plenty

01:43:00.320 --> 01:43:03.320
of research that shows children who eat

01:43:03.360 --> 01:43:06.215
well do better at school and children

01:43:06.239 --> 01:43:09.239
who don't get a nutritious breakfast do

01:43:09.600 --> 01:43:11.976
poorly. So, you're compounding the

01:43:12.000 --> 01:43:15.000
disadvantage.  and I think  we do

01:43:15.679 --> 01:43:18.679
have money for this to I could also

01:43:19.280 --> 01:43:21.095
donate I donate to the World Food

01:43:21.119 --> 01:43:24.119
Program. Um but that is also because I'm

01:43:25.360 --> 01:43:28.360
able to and  I think that the council

01:43:28.960 --> 01:43:31.095
on behalf of the community ought to

01:43:31.119 --> 01:43:34.119
support  this not for profofit group

01:43:35.760 --> 01:43:38.296
volunteers to ensure that the children

01:43:38.320 --> 01:43:40.776
who go to school have enough to eat so

01:43:40.800 --> 01:43:43.336
that they can learn and put their best

01:43:43.360 --> 01:43:45.016
foot forward into the world when they

01:43:45.040 --> 01:43:45.736
leave.

01:43:45.760 --> 01:43:47.175
Thank you councelor Willis. Is there

01:43:47.199 --> 01:43:49.896
further discussion? Councelor Grundy.

01:43:49.920 --> 01:43:52.456
Thank you Mr. Mayor.  I'll just pick

01:43:52.480 --> 01:43:54.536
up on something councelor Wilson said

01:43:54.560 --> 01:43:57.256
every public school makes a contribute

01:43:57.280 --> 01:43:59.816
or that you said that you know they make

01:43:59.840 --> 01:44:01.655
a contribution to the community which

01:44:01.679 --> 01:44:03.336
they do but that's true for every public

01:44:03.360 --> 01:44:06.360
school. Um the community grant

01:44:06.880 --> 01:44:08.456
guidelines are currently out on

01:44:08.480 --> 01:44:10.135
exhibition

01:44:10.159 --> 01:44:13.159
and  it's notable that um this sort of

01:44:14.480 --> 01:44:16.776
application is not favored. It's not a

01:44:16.800 --> 01:44:18.776
favored application and it scores very

01:44:18.800 --> 01:44:21.800
poorly um against the  assessment

01:44:22.560 --> 01:44:25.560
criteria with um those guidelines.

01:44:26.320 --> 01:44:29.175
And I'd also point out that there are

01:44:29.199 --> 01:44:32.199
alternate funding options available to

01:44:32.480 --> 01:44:35.480
this group. Um and that is through

01:44:35.920 --> 01:44:38.920
fundraising like any other PNC.

01:44:39.440 --> 01:44:42.440
And um I would applaud the the other

01:44:43.119 --> 01:44:45.496
PNC's that get off their butt and go and

01:44:45.520 --> 01:44:48.520
do that fundraising.

01:44:49.199 --> 01:44:51.095
Councelor Livermore.

01:44:51.119 --> 01:44:53.896
Wow. I hope um Jeroba public  high

01:44:53.920 --> 01:44:55.816
school just heard that that you don't

01:44:55.840 --> 01:44:57.336
get off your butt that you don't do

01:44:57.360 --> 01:44:58.856
anything that your volunteers are

01:44:58.880 --> 01:45:01.016
sitting there and and with your

01:45:01.040 --> 01:45:04.040
misrepresentation waiting

01:45:04.080 --> 01:45:07.080
to hear that. So

01:45:07.119 --> 01:45:09.016
I just want to thank firstly those

01:45:09.040 --> 01:45:11.816
volunteers at the that in the PNC up

01:45:11.840 --> 01:45:13.095
there that are you know out there

01:45:13.119 --> 01:45:16.119
they're not they have used the different

01:45:16.960 --> 01:45:18.856
ways in which to receive funding and

01:45:18.880 --> 01:45:21.880
this is one of them.

01:45:22.400 --> 01:45:25.256
I don't I donate but I don't brag about

01:45:25.280 --> 01:45:28.280
it and then come here and then say no.

01:45:29.840 --> 01:45:31.896
There are I probably was one of those

01:45:31.920 --> 01:45:34.695
kids who utilized that um you know

01:45:34.719 --> 01:45:37.095
breakfast  free breakfastes when you

01:45:37.119 --> 01:45:38.695
go in you go into every public school

01:45:38.719 --> 01:45:40.135
and they're using them but not all

01:45:40.159 --> 01:45:42.296
schools are the same.

01:45:42.320 --> 01:45:45.256
You know it's great that um you know

01:45:45.280 --> 01:45:48.135
your child's school counselor MacDonald

01:45:48.159 --> 01:45:49.896
is able to have a principal that's gone

01:45:49.920 --> 01:45:51.416
out and found that but why should we say

01:45:51.440 --> 01:45:53.175
no to those that come and ask for that

01:45:53.199 --> 01:45:55.256
help? I feel so embarrassed that

01:45:55.280 --> 01:45:56.936
children,

01:45:56.960 --> 01:45:58.936
families,

01:45:58.960 --> 01:46:01.655
community are hearing that, you know,

01:46:01.679 --> 01:46:04.679
this this hearing about the debate

01:46:04.800 --> 01:46:06.695
tonight in the way that it's in which it

01:46:06.719 --> 01:46:09.719
is being debated to just help support a

01:46:11.440 --> 01:46:14.440
school of PNC children and a family and

01:46:14.800 --> 01:46:17.576
family in these times that food prices,

01:46:17.600 --> 01:46:20.215
petrol prices, the cost of living is

01:46:20.239 --> 01:46:21.736
crazy. And if we've got some of that

01:46:21.760 --> 01:46:23.736
money to be able to to hand back and

01:46:23.760 --> 01:46:26.760
support families, then that's our job as

01:46:26.960 --> 01:46:29.576
counselors also. We're all humans and

01:46:29.600 --> 01:46:31.496
some of that humanity is not showing for

01:46:31.520 --> 01:46:33.256
me tonight.

01:46:33.280 --> 01:46:34.695
Thank you, councelor Livermore. If

01:46:34.719 --> 01:46:36.056
there's no further discussion, there is

01:46:36.080 --> 01:46:37.896
councelor Schwit.

01:46:37.920 --> 01:46:39.496
Just a I guess a suggestion for the

01:46:39.520 --> 01:46:42.056
mover.

01:46:42.080 --> 01:46:44.536
If we're trying to actually do a good

01:46:44.560 --> 01:46:47.175
thing by the school students of of QPRC,

01:46:47.199 --> 01:46:49.416
why are we just doing one school? Why

01:46:49.440 --> 01:46:51.095
don't you make it every school? Why

01:46:51.119 --> 01:46:52.215
don't you make a donation to every

01:46:52.239 --> 01:46:53.336
school's breakfast club? You're talking

01:46:53.360 --> 01:46:55.336
about equity and so forth. Do it at all.

01:46:55.360 --> 01:46:56.936
We're just talking about one school here

01:46:56.960 --> 01:46:58.936
in the highest socioeconomic area in the

01:46:58.960 --> 01:47:01.816
QPRC. I can't see that as equitable

01:47:01.840 --> 01:47:03.416
somehow.

01:47:03.440 --> 01:47:05.576
Is there further discussion? Councelor

01:47:05.600 --> 01:47:07.816
Wilson. I'll ask you to sum up.

01:47:07.840 --> 01:47:10.840
 thank you  Mayor and yeah, thank

01:47:12.159 --> 01:47:13.976
you everyone for the debate.  hasn't

01:47:14.000 --> 01:47:15.896
been all pretty, but it it it was a good

01:47:15.920 --> 01:47:18.135
discussion. Um, I just want to quickly

01:47:18.159 --> 01:47:19.816
wrap up. The reason we're doing this is

01:47:19.840 --> 01:47:21.336
because someone has asked, "Why do we

01:47:21.360 --> 01:47:22.695
not do every Lions Club? Why do we not

01:47:22.719 --> 01:47:24.856
do every Rotary? Why don't we do every

01:47:24.880 --> 01:47:27.256
church? Why don't we, you know, we have

01:47:27.280 --> 01:47:29.256
a policy. The policy is out for view as

01:47:29.280 --> 01:47:31.896
councelor Grundy has noted. , that is

01:47:31.920 --> 01:47:34.920
for 2627, not for 256,

01:47:35.600 --> 01:47:37.095
which is where this grant will come

01:47:37.119 --> 01:47:39.496
from. Um, I would actually argue, and

01:47:39.520 --> 01:47:41.256
I'll be putting a bid in that we expand

01:47:41.280 --> 01:47:42.936
the donations to the community. I think

01:47:42.960 --> 01:47:44.135
it's one of the reasons how we buy

01:47:44.159 --> 01:47:46.456
social license to do what we do  and

01:47:46.480 --> 01:47:48.376
supporting those in the community. So,

01:47:48.400 --> 01:47:50.776
 I'll just finish up by saying as a

01:47:50.800 --> 01:47:52.856
5-year PNC president and someone that

01:47:52.880 --> 01:47:54.695
served like Mayor Winchester on the

01:47:54.719 --> 01:47:56.456
board of New South Wales PNC, they do

01:47:56.480 --> 01:47:58.135
great work across the state, across our

01:47:58.159 --> 01:48:00.215
community.  and this is a this

01:48:00.239 --> 01:48:01.816
decision tonight is not about just about

01:48:01.840 --> 01:48:03.816
the dollars. It's actually about a

01:48:03.840 --> 01:48:06.296
statement of support to the to PNC's and

01:48:06.320 --> 01:48:07.496
other ones want to come to us with that

01:48:07.520 --> 01:48:09.336
to say, "Yeah, we do this together. I

01:48:09.360 --> 01:48:10.376
look forward to going to the breakfast

01:48:10.400 --> 01:48:11.896
club at some stage and and chatting to

01:48:11.920 --> 01:48:13.095
the staff and the students. Thank you

01:48:13.119 --> 01:48:14.376
and the PNC. Thank you.

01:48:14.400 --> 01:48:15.655
Thank you. I'll put the motion. All

01:48:15.679 --> 01:48:17.576
those in favor are councilors Broadbent,

01:48:17.600 --> 01:48:19.496
Livermore, Preston, Tascoski,

01:48:19.520 --> 01:48:21.736
Waterhouse, Willis, Wilson at Winchester

01:48:21.760 --> 01:48:23.816
and against councilors Grundy and

01:48:23.840 --> 01:48:26.135
Macdonald and Schwacket. I declare it

01:48:26.159 --> 01:48:28.376
carried. So there's no members of the

01:48:28.400 --> 01:48:30.296
public present. So we don't need to ask

01:48:30.320 --> 01:48:32.215
if anyone wants to speak on the items.

01:48:32.239 --> 01:48:34.135
So I'm going to move that we move into

01:48:34.159 --> 01:48:36.056
close session for the reasons specified

01:48:36.080 --> 01:48:37.896
in the business paper. Now be second by

01:48:37.920 --> 01:48:39.016
council Broadbent and we'll put the

01:48:39.040 --> 01:48:41.095
motion. All those in favor that's

01:48:41.119 --> 01:48:43.175
unanimous

01:48:43.199 --> 01:48:44.936
unanimous and carried and we'll move

01:48:44.960 --> 01:48:47.960
into close session.

01:48:49.840 --> 01:48:51.256
All right, we're back in open session.

01:48:51.280 --> 01:48:52.615
So I'll read through the decisions

01:48:52.639 --> 01:48:54.856
council made in close session. So on

01:48:54.880 --> 01:48:57.880
item 15.1,

01:48:59.199 --> 01:49:01.256
it was resolved that council 1 award

01:49:01.280 --> 01:49:03.655
contract 2026-41 for the outright

01:49:03.679 --> 01:49:05.175
purchase supply and erection of modular

01:49:05.199 --> 01:49:07.416
buildings at Bradwood depot to Modstru

01:49:07.440 --> 01:49:10.440
PT for1,26,387

01:49:11.440 --> 01:49:13.736
excluding GST and to allocate the

01:49:13.760 --> 01:49:16.376
additional $917,58

01:49:16.400 --> 01:49:17.896
from identified savings within the

01:49:17.920 --> 01:49:20.920
current 202526 budget

01:49:22.159 --> 01:49:25.159
15.2 two.

01:49:28.239 --> 01:49:31.239
Yeah, 15.2 was  on the Queen bean

01:49:31.600 --> 01:49:33.336
sewage treatment plant upgrade project

01:49:33.360 --> 01:49:34.856
update and it will resolve that report.

01:49:34.880 --> 01:49:37.095
We received information

01:49:37.119 --> 01:49:40.119
15.3

01:49:41.920 --> 01:49:44.615
was that council which is 15.3 is a

01:49:44.639 --> 01:49:46.135
pelarang communities integrated water

01:49:46.159 --> 01:49:47.816
cycle management strategy and pricing

01:49:47.840 --> 01:49:49.576
that council one authorized the

01:49:49.600 --> 01:49:51.416
amalgamation of the former queen and

01:49:51.440 --> 01:49:54.056
palarang water funds into a single QPRC

01:49:54.080 --> 01:49:55.655
water fund from the commencement of the

01:49:55.679 --> 01:49:58.679
202627 financial year. to set the

01:49:58.880 --> 01:50:01.816
2020627 QPRC standard residential water

01:50:01.840 --> 01:50:04.840
access charge at $444 per assessment and

01:50:05.119 --> 01:50:08.119
the usage charge at $4.58 per kilo.

01:50:08.239 --> 01:50:09.655
Authorize the amalgamation of the former

01:50:09.679 --> 01:50:11.416
Queen and Palaring storage funds into a

01:50:11.440 --> 01:50:13.416
single QPRC storage fund from the

01:50:13.440 --> 01:50:15.816
commencement of the 2627 financial year.

01:50:15.840 --> 01:50:18.615
Set the 2627 QPRC standard residential

01:50:18.639 --> 01:50:21.639
storage charge at $1,35 per assessment.

01:50:21.679 --> 01:50:23.095
authorized the finalization of the

01:50:23.119 --> 01:50:26.119
Palarang community's IWCM strategy after

01:50:26.320 --> 01:50:27.896
community engagement and public

01:50:27.920 --> 01:50:29.655
consultation with a report to be

01:50:29.679 --> 01:50:31.496
presented to council for adoption and

01:50:31.520 --> 01:50:33.336
authorize the preparation of a

01:50:33.360 --> 01:50:34.936
development servicing plans in

01:50:34.960 --> 01:50:37.095
accordance with the details contained in

01:50:37.119 --> 01:50:38.695
this report including required

01:50:38.719 --> 01:50:40.376
stakeholder engagement and independent

01:50:40.400 --> 01:50:42.135
audit with a final report to be

01:50:42.159 --> 01:50:45.159
presented to council. 15.4 Four was the

01:50:46.320 --> 01:50:47.976
Jerobon Barara traffic campaign

01:50:48.000 --> 01:50:51.000
construction

01:50:51.440 --> 01:50:53.256
and it was resolved that council award

01:50:53.280 --> 01:50:55.576
contract 2026-57

01:50:55.600 --> 01:50:57.655
for the Jerobona traffic cap campaign

01:50:57.679 --> 01:51:00.296
construction to cord civil pty LTD for

01:51:00.320 --> 01:51:02.695
1,24,813

01:51:02.719 --> 01:51:05.095
excluding GST as recommended in the

01:51:05.119 --> 01:51:06.936
tender valuation report and two the

01:51:06.960 --> 01:51:08.936
budell drive treatments be reassessed

01:51:08.960 --> 01:51:10.856
and other traffic safety works be

01:51:10.880 --> 01:51:13.880
considered. And then we had item 15.5

01:51:14.080 --> 01:51:16.056
which was councelor questions on 22

01:51:16.080 --> 01:51:18.936
April 20 26 confidential agenda items

01:51:18.960 --> 01:51:20.215
was resolved that the report be received

01:51:20.239 --> 01:51:22.936
for information and 15.6 briefing on New

01:51:22.960 --> 01:51:24.215
South Wales land environment court

01:51:24.239 --> 01:51:26.056
action QPRC

01:51:26.080 --> 01:51:26.615
ATS

01:51:26.639 --> 01:51:28.695
ATS Pearl Energy and it resolved that

01:51:28.719 --> 01:51:31.719
the report be received for information.

01:51:31.920 --> 01:51:34.056
So the next item on the agenda council

01:51:34.080 --> 01:51:35.175
well I'm going to do the procedural

01:51:35.199 --> 01:51:38.199
motion that we proceed past 930 which is

01:51:38.320 --> 01:51:41.320
allowable under 18.2 to in the code of

01:51:41.360 --> 01:51:43.496
meeting practice.

01:51:43.520 --> 01:51:44.936
I'm just going to read it because I'm

01:51:44.960 --> 01:51:46.615
not very familiar with it. So, if the

01:51:46.639 --> 01:51:48.056
business of the meeting is unfinished at

01:51:48.080 --> 01:51:49.575
the time the council has determined at

01:51:49.599 --> 01:51:51.256
9:30 p.m. and the council does not

01:51:51.280 --> 01:51:52.376
resolve to extend the meeting, the

01:51:52.400 --> 01:51:53.736
chairperson must either defer

01:51:53.760 --> 01:51:55.736
consideration of remaining items of

01:51:55.760 --> 01:51:57.336
instance on the agenda to the next order

01:51:57.360 --> 01:51:58.936
meeting council or adjourn the meeting

01:51:58.960 --> 01:52:00.695
to a time date and fix by the chair's

01:52:00.719 --> 01:52:03.719
person. So,

01:52:04.800 --> 01:52:06.456
so we do need to resolve to extend the

01:52:06.480 --> 01:52:07.496
meeting. So councilors, I'm going to

01:52:07.520 --> 01:52:08.776
resolve that we extend the meeting to

01:52:08.800 --> 01:52:10.056
get through to the end of the business

01:52:10.080 --> 01:52:12.056
paper to have a second council MacDonald

01:52:12.080 --> 01:52:13.175
and I'm going to put that motion

01:52:13.199 --> 01:52:16.199
council. All those in favor that's

01:52:16.320 --> 01:52:17.976
unanimous and carried. So we will

01:52:18.000 --> 01:52:20.376
continue with the business paper. So the

01:52:20.400 --> 01:52:22.856
next item is items for information.

01:52:22.880 --> 01:52:24.135
Councilors can leave at any point if

01:52:24.159 --> 01:52:26.695
they don't want to stay. 9.1 is a

01:52:26.719 --> 01:52:28.215
summary of road renewal and maintenance

01:52:28.239 --> 01:52:31.175
activities third quarter 2526.

01:52:31.199 --> 01:52:32.856
That's moved by councelor Schwe second

01:52:32.880 --> 01:52:34.456
councelor Wilson. Is there discussion on

01:52:34.480 --> 01:52:36.776
this? We'll put the motion all in f

01:52:36.800 --> 01:52:38.536
there is discussion council waterhouse.

01:52:38.560 --> 01:52:40.776
Yes, congratulations on the teams. 

01:52:40.800 --> 01:52:43.175
they're ahead of their game. Well done.

01:52:43.199 --> 01:52:44.695
Thank you councelor Waterhouse. We'll

01:52:44.719 --> 01:52:46.456
put the motion. All those in favor

01:52:46.480 --> 01:52:49.480
unanimous and carried. 9.2 is the HSQ

01:52:50.080 --> 01:52:52.936
quarterly report 1 January 26 to 31

01:52:52.960 --> 01:52:55.175
March 2026. Moved by council Broadbent

01:52:55.199 --> 01:52:57.575
second council Preston. The discussion

01:52:57.599 --> 01:52:59.896
put the motion all in favor unanimous

01:52:59.920 --> 01:53:01.976
and carried. Next is reports of

01:53:02.000 --> 01:53:03.896
committees. 10.1 is a Queanbeyan

01:53:03.920 --> 01:53:05.736
Showground advisory committee minutes 9

01:53:05.760 --> 01:53:08.215
February 2026 move councelor MacDonald

01:53:08.239 --> 01:53:09.976
second councelor Winchester is there

01:53:10.000 --> 01:53:12.135
discussion councelor MacDonald very

01:53:12.159 --> 01:53:14.776
briefly mayor look there has been some

01:53:14.800 --> 01:53:17.800
difficulties at the show ground  um

01:53:18.000 --> 01:53:21.000
users have noted with respect to the um

01:53:21.360 --> 01:53:24.056
ancillary operations around the main

01:53:24.080 --> 01:53:27.080
street upgrades  and  and they have

01:53:27.840 --> 01:53:30.840
ventilated those concerns um often I

01:53:32.560 --> 01:53:33.736
don't think we're out of the woods yet.

01:53:33.760 --> 01:53:36.760
And I think there needs to be a um a

01:53:36.800 --> 01:53:39.800
refocus on the  efforts that we make

01:53:41.280 --> 01:53:43.896
to continue to attract major events to

01:53:43.920 --> 01:53:46.920
the showground  as  nationally and

01:53:47.920 --> 01:53:50.920
 and locally  they are on the way.

01:53:51.679 --> 01:53:54.456
Thank you. Is councelor Willis?

01:53:54.480 --> 01:53:57.336
Yes, thank you. I noted that um there

01:53:57.360 --> 01:54:00.360
was some discussion about  removing

01:54:00.639 --> 01:54:03.639
the old sheep pens because homeless

01:54:03.760 --> 01:54:06.615
people had taken up in them. Um well

01:54:06.639 --> 01:54:08.615
that's a tragedy that more people are

01:54:08.639 --> 01:54:10.536
sleeping rough. But it's my

01:54:10.560 --> 01:54:12.215
understanding that the sheep pens are

01:54:12.239 --> 01:54:15.239
part of the complex listing the listing

01:54:15.280 --> 01:54:17.575
of the complex of the  Queen Bean

01:54:17.599 --> 01:54:19.655
Showground which is a state heritage

01:54:19.679 --> 01:54:22.615
item. And I'd be very surprised if the

01:54:22.639 --> 01:54:25.575
 the committee was able to orchestrate

01:54:25.599 --> 01:54:27.336
their removal.

01:54:27.360 --> 01:54:29.896
I can assure through you may council

01:54:29.920 --> 01:54:32.695
well it was  over it was a part of the

01:54:32.719 --> 01:54:35.719
discussion  by um some members um 

01:54:37.840 --> 01:54:40.840
and not a matter of decision.  in any

01:54:41.520 --> 01:54:42.776
event that would not be a matter of

01:54:42.800 --> 01:54:44.536
decision for that committee as

01:54:44.560 --> 01:54:47.336
committees do not have those sorts of

01:54:47.360 --> 01:54:49.095
authorities.

01:54:49.119 --> 01:54:50.376
Thank you. If there's no further

01:54:50.400 --> 01:54:51.736
discussion, we'll put the motion. All in

01:54:51.760 --> 01:54:54.760
favor, unanimous and carried. 10.2 is

01:54:54.960 --> 01:54:57.416
the seniors advisory committee minutes

01:54:57.440 --> 01:54:59.416
20 March 2026. Move council MacDonald

01:54:59.440 --> 01:55:01.095
second council Broadbent. Again very

01:55:01.119 --> 01:55:04.119
briefly  look there this um discussion

01:55:04.400 --> 01:55:07.400
was centered around the um success of

01:55:07.520 --> 01:55:10.296
the um various events  which council

01:55:10.320 --> 01:55:13.320
funded for the seniors um festival 

01:55:14.000 --> 01:55:17.000
which held over two weeks  with little

01:55:17.760 --> 01:55:20.760
input from council staff  other than

01:55:20.960 --> 01:55:23.960
for administrative support.  I think

01:55:24.000 --> 01:55:26.776
what that that will flag the success and

01:55:26.800 --> 01:55:28.135
certain things which could have been

01:55:28.159 --> 01:55:31.159
done more and better  will flag um

01:55:31.920 --> 01:55:34.376
within the  requests which may come

01:55:34.400 --> 01:55:36.456
forward in coming weeks for 

01:55:36.480 --> 01:55:38.376
continuation and expansion of that

01:55:38.400 --> 01:55:39.655
support.

01:55:39.679 --> 01:55:41.016
Thank you. Is there any further

01:55:41.040 --> 01:55:42.615
discussion? We'll put the motion all in

01:55:42.639 --> 01:55:45.095
favor. That's unanimous and carried.

01:55:45.119 --> 01:55:46.936
10.3 is the arts and cultural

01:55:46.960 --> 01:55:48.615
development advisory committee minutes

01:55:48.639 --> 01:55:50.536
26 March 2026. Move councelor

01:55:50.560 --> 01:55:52.615
Waterhouse. Second councelor Tasakovski

01:55:52.639 --> 01:55:54.615
there discussion we'll put the motion

01:55:54.639 --> 01:55:57.336
all in favor unanimous and carried we've

01:55:57.360 --> 01:55:59.256
already dealt with notice of motions so

01:55:59.280 --> 01:56:01.496
councelor questions 13.1 councelor

01:56:01.520 --> 01:56:03.416
questions Monero street moved by

01:56:03.440 --> 01:56:04.856
councelor broadbent second councelor

01:56:04.880 --> 01:56:07.095
MacDonald there discussion on this item

01:56:07.119 --> 01:56:09.496
councelor grundy

01:56:09.520 --> 01:56:11.575
I just have a question I'm just bringing

01:56:11.599 --> 01:56:13.976
it up

01:56:14.000 --> 01:56:17.000
Mr. Mayor um this is Monero Street

01:56:17.679 --> 01:56:19.736
questions. Yes. Mhm.

01:56:19.760 --> 01:56:22.760
Y um now who is

01:56:24.000 --> 01:56:27.000
mail.mmonitorcrm@monitorcrms.com

01:56:32.400 --> 01:56:34.936
because that is the communication that

01:56:34.960 --> 01:56:37.496
councilors are sent

01:56:37.520 --> 01:56:40.520
um when they get emails for updates on

01:56:41.040 --> 01:56:43.575
the Monero Street Capital Works Pro

01:56:43.599 --> 01:56:45.256
project.

01:56:45.280 --> 01:56:47.575
Customer relationship management tool.

01:56:47.599 --> 01:56:50.599
It's and um

01:56:51.440 --> 01:56:53.175
so there was to my knowledge there was

01:56:53.199 --> 01:56:56.199
no kind of communication about this site

01:56:56.480 --> 01:56:58.776
or this communication

01:56:58.800 --> 01:57:01.800
it source its identity um I'm assuming

01:57:02.880 --> 01:57:05.880
it's valid um but it's it's

01:57:08.320 --> 01:57:10.296
it's not helpful because the email

01:57:10.320 --> 01:57:12.936
itself always

01:57:12.960 --> 01:57:15.960
 at the a band at the top has a high

01:57:17.199 --> 01:57:19.095
lighted in red warning that says this

01:57:19.119 --> 01:57:20.695
email orig from outside the

01:57:20.719 --> 01:57:22.456
organization. Please do not click links

01:57:22.480 --> 01:57:24.296
or open attachments unless you recognize

01:57:24.320 --> 01:57:26.776
the sender and how the content is safe.

01:57:26.800 --> 01:57:29.800
Well, I don't re recommend the sender

01:57:29.840 --> 01:57:31.896
and we weren't told about who this group

01:57:31.920 --> 01:57:34.296
is. So, where' they come from and why

01:57:34.320 --> 01:57:37.320
they why aren't staff um being used to

01:57:39.040 --> 01:57:42.040
inform counselors about Monero Street?

01:57:42.560 --> 01:57:44.776
So, this might be one that Mr. Goa might

01:57:44.800 --> 01:57:47.800
be best placed to answer.

01:57:49.119 --> 01:57:52.119
Just we'll let staff answer the question

01:58:02.400 --> 01:58:05.400
through you may um monitor is just a a

01:58:05.920 --> 01:58:08.920
tool  similar to Mailchimp. the email

01:58:09.679 --> 01:58:11.496
address, the URL that it's coming from

01:58:11.520 --> 01:58:14.520
the is um the information is sent by 

01:58:15.760 --> 01:58:18.376
staff in the economic development area

01:58:18.400 --> 01:58:20.936
who write the email, send the email. The

01:58:20.960 --> 01:58:22.376
address that it's coming from is just

01:58:22.400 --> 01:58:24.456
the tool that it's used from. So it be

01:58:24.480 --> 01:58:27.336
like similar to Mailchimp.

01:58:27.360 --> 01:58:30.360
Can I just make a comment then? Um in

01:58:30.639 --> 01:58:33.095
future if this sort of tech tech is

01:58:33.119 --> 01:58:35.416
being used or these tools are to be used

01:58:35.440 --> 01:58:38.296
can can it be explained that this is a

01:58:38.320 --> 01:58:40.776
legitimate site and that it is designed

01:58:40.800 --> 01:58:43.496
to give counselors update or information

01:58:43.520 --> 01:58:46.056
or whatever because um none of that was

01:58:46.080 --> 01:58:48.936
ever done and for some time I didn't

01:58:48.960 --> 01:58:50.776
know the source of this and I ignored

01:58:50.800 --> 01:58:53.095
those communications.

01:58:53.119 --> 01:58:53.896
Just a comment.

01:58:53.920 --> 01:58:56.215
The staff can take that on notice. For

01:58:56.239 --> 01:58:58.056
when I get the emails from it comes

01:58:58.080 --> 01:58:59.655
through, it says it's from the Monero

01:58:59.679 --> 01:59:02.135
Street refresh team, but it might be an

01:59:02.159 --> 01:59:04.695
issue for council grundy's, but other

01:59:04.719 --> 01:59:06.536
councilors as well might need to have it

01:59:06.560 --> 01:59:08.215
looked at, but staff can take that

01:59:08.239 --> 01:59:09.655
notice. Councelor Broadbent.

01:59:09.679 --> 01:59:11.816
Yeah, I was just going to recommend that

01:59:11.840 --> 01:59:14.840
um get I'm shocked. I'd be I'd be or not

01:59:15.599 --> 01:59:17.976
shocked. I I would be it would I would

01:59:18.000 --> 01:59:19.496
expect that that software would allow us

01:59:19.520 --> 01:59:22.456
to connect our domain um and send from

01:59:22.480 --> 01:59:23.816
our domain. It's probably it's worth

01:59:23.840 --> 01:59:26.840
investigating cuz you know we we're a

01:59:27.040 --> 01:59:28.776
trusted government domain. If we can

01:59:28.800 --> 01:59:31.175
connect our domain to that app then

01:59:31.199 --> 01:59:33.256
people won't bin it just like as as

01:59:33.280 --> 01:59:36.056
usual. I'd talk to Mr. John about that

01:59:36.080 --> 01:59:37.736
and clean it up.

01:59:37.760 --> 01:59:39.175
Thank you. Is there further discussion

01:59:39.199 --> 01:59:41.175
on the item? Council striker.

01:59:41.199 --> 01:59:42.456
Yeah, I wish to speak against the

01:59:42.480 --> 01:59:45.480
motion. Um the question was asked  who

01:59:46.320 --> 01:59:49.175
and why and that hasn't been answered.

01:59:49.199 --> 01:59:50.776
Um saying that Transport for New South

01:59:50.800 --> 01:59:52.056
Wales approved the temporary full

01:59:52.080 --> 01:59:53.896
closure of Monero Street. They didn't

01:59:53.920 --> 01:59:55.736
make the decision to do that. They just

01:59:55.760 --> 01:59:57.336
approved a plan of someone making a

01:59:57.360 --> 01:59:59.655
decision and submitting it to them. So

01:59:59.679 --> 02:00:02.679
that hasn't been actually answered. Um

02:00:03.440 --> 02:00:05.175
the other issue I have with this too is

02:00:05.199 --> 02:00:08.199
that um it says in here in line with

02:00:08.239 --> 02:00:09.655
normal practice for operational project

02:00:09.679 --> 02:00:11.175
delivery this decision did not require

02:00:11.199 --> 02:00:13.896
further council resolution. I I disagree

02:00:13.920 --> 02:00:15.736
with that considerably because the

02:00:15.760 --> 02:00:17.816
council resolution was for a staged

02:00:17.840 --> 02:00:20.135
closure of the road. That was legal

02:00:20.159 --> 02:00:22.856
direction to the general manager that

02:00:22.880 --> 02:00:25.880
was then changed without council

02:00:26.719 --> 02:00:28.936
resolution. to change a council

02:00:28.960 --> 02:00:30.456
resolution's got to come back to council

02:00:30.480 --> 02:00:32.456
to change the resolution. We made gave

02:00:32.480 --> 02:00:34.776
legal direction that it would be staged

02:00:34.800 --> 02:00:37.575
closures. We did not authorize for a

02:00:37.599 --> 02:00:40.599
proper closure. Um now we asked who and

02:00:41.119 --> 02:00:43.016
that hasn't been answered. I'm looking

02:00:43.040 --> 02:00:45.976
at an article from a on a website called

02:00:46.000 --> 02:00:48.215
um Q News

02:00:48.239 --> 02:00:50.615
written by Bry Winchester on the 18th of

02:00:50.639 --> 02:00:53.639
February 2026 and in it she says QPRC

02:00:53.679 --> 02:00:55.496
Mayor Kendrick Winster said council made

02:00:55.520 --> 02:00:58.520
the call to fully close the road.

02:00:58.880 --> 02:01:00.856
I don't recall a resolution coming to

02:01:00.880 --> 02:01:02.776
fully close the road. We had a

02:01:02.800 --> 02:01:04.936
resolution to stage close it over 18

02:01:04.960 --> 02:01:07.175
months. So I'm not voting for the for

02:01:07.199 --> 02:01:09.256
the noting of the report because to me

02:01:09.280 --> 02:01:11.816
this is a serious breach of governance.

02:01:11.840 --> 02:01:13.655
We issued general we issued legal

02:01:13.679 --> 02:01:14.856
direction and that's what a council

02:01:14.880 --> 02:01:17.880
resolution is and it's been broken.

02:01:19.840 --> 02:01:22.135
Thanks councel must make a quick comment

02:01:22.159 --> 02:01:23.575
on that. I was obviously being

02:01:23.599 --> 02:01:25.575
interviewed and by making the the

02:01:25.599 --> 02:01:27.256
statement that council made the

02:01:27.280 --> 02:01:29.016
decision. It was just something I would

02:01:29.040 --> 02:01:31.175
have said in general potentially when I

02:01:31.199 --> 02:01:32.536
was getting  interviewed even

02:01:32.560 --> 02:01:34.135
internally and we're doing the video for

02:01:34.159 --> 02:01:36.615
it. I think it's the staff have done

02:01:36.639 --> 02:01:38.376
their best to explain here that between

02:01:38.400 --> 02:01:40.456
transport for New South Wales, our staff

02:01:40.480 --> 02:01:42.776
are involved and the contractor an

02:01:42.800 --> 02:01:44.856
option was put forward about potentially

02:01:44.880 --> 02:01:47.880
closing both lanes. I have had nothing

02:01:48.239 --> 02:01:51.239
but support from just about everyone

02:01:51.280 --> 02:01:54.056
about that decision, including

02:01:54.080 --> 02:01:56.135
particularly businesses in the main

02:01:56.159 --> 02:01:59.159
street. So I like we can go on forever

02:02:00.320 --> 02:02:01.816
about if you want a specific name,

02:02:01.840 --> 02:02:03.095
someone from Transport for New South

02:02:03.119 --> 02:02:05.256
Wales, I don't know. I think it's been

02:02:05.280 --> 02:02:07.575
explained here that between transport

02:02:07.599 --> 02:02:10.599
the contractor the decision was made. So

02:02:10.960 --> 02:02:12.456
we are where we are. It's not going to

02:02:12.480 --> 02:02:14.135
be undone and I think it is a good

02:02:14.159 --> 02:02:15.575
decision but the general manager might

02:02:15.599 --> 02:02:18.215
want to make further comment on the on

02:02:18.239 --> 02:02:19.575
the whole thing. Yeah.

02:02:19.599 --> 02:02:21.655
 no Mr. Mayor but I would request that

02:02:21.679 --> 02:02:24.376
councelor Schwert um retract his

02:02:24.400 --> 02:02:27.016
allegation that I have not um conducted

02:02:27.040 --> 02:02:30.040
a resolution legally. Council awarded a

02:02:30.080 --> 02:02:31.736
contract to Dale and Hitchcock on the

02:02:31.760 --> 02:02:34.760
25th of March. There was nothing in that

02:02:35.360 --> 02:02:38.296
cont in that resolution that said it was

02:02:38.320 --> 02:02:41.320
a staged project or how it was

02:02:41.360 --> 02:02:43.175
delivered. This decision was an

02:02:43.199 --> 02:02:45.095
operational matter and that is why it

02:02:45.119 --> 02:02:47.095
was not required to go back to council

02:02:47.119 --> 02:02:49.896
and I object to to being um an

02:02:49.920 --> 02:02:52.920
allegation made that my integrity and my

02:02:53.040 --> 02:02:56.040
decision making has been um questioned.

02:02:57.040 --> 02:02:57.416
Mr.

02:02:57.440 --> 02:02:58.296
Mr. May point

02:02:58.320 --> 02:02:59.976
before I move to you councelor granny go

02:03:00.000 --> 02:03:02.296
to councelor swet and we'll request that

02:03:02.320 --> 02:03:05.320
the comments in relation to legality be

02:03:07.119 --> 02:03:08.376
withdrawn.

02:03:08.400 --> 02:03:09.976
No I don't.

02:03:10.000 --> 02:03:12.056
Okay but that's that's up to you

02:03:12.080 --> 02:03:13.416
councelor swer that puts the general

02:03:13.440 --> 02:03:15.976
manager in particular situation.

02:03:16.000 --> 02:03:19.000
Councelor Wilson counc

02:03:19.520 --> 02:03:21.175
and that is that what was just said by

02:03:21.199 --> 02:03:23.336
the the general manager was misleading

02:03:23.360 --> 02:03:25.575
because it was very clear. I clearly

02:03:25.599 --> 02:03:28.215
recommen rec recollect when  that

02:03:28.239 --> 02:03:31.239
resolution was passed that all

02:03:31.599 --> 02:03:34.135
councilors were under the impression

02:03:34.159 --> 02:03:36.776
based on previous presentations,

02:03:36.800 --> 02:03:39.800
workshops and discussions during the

02:03:40.400 --> 02:03:43.400
meeting that it was not to be a complete

02:03:43.760 --> 02:03:45.976
 road closure. It was to be an

02:03:46.000 --> 02:03:49.000
alternate um one side the other side

02:03:49.280 --> 02:03:51.816
road closure. That was the understanding

02:03:51.840 --> 02:03:54.695
on which I certainly made my decision

02:03:54.719 --> 02:03:57.719
and I believe every other counselor 

02:03:57.920 --> 02:03:59.336
based their decision on that

02:03:59.360 --> 02:04:02.296
understanding.

02:04:02.320 --> 02:04:04.856
I said I believe because that is what

02:04:04.880 --> 02:04:05.575
occurred.

02:04:05.599 --> 02:04:07.816
Councelor Wilson

02:04:07.840 --> 02:04:09.256
 thank you. I just want to put on the

02:04:09.280 --> 02:04:10.936
record I am very supportive of where

02:04:10.960 --> 02:04:13.736
we've had it on operational matter and I

02:04:13.760 --> 02:04:16.760
 it's partly our place collectively. I

02:04:17.679 --> 02:04:19.655
am concerned that a councelor has made

02:04:19.679 --> 02:04:22.679
an illegal  allegation against a GM in

02:04:22.880 --> 02:04:24.936
a public forum. I remind councelor Swike

02:04:24.960 --> 02:04:26.376
this is a public forum being live

02:04:26.400 --> 02:04:27.896
telecast and you've you know

02:04:27.920 --> 02:04:29.976
theoretically just defamed the GM and

02:04:30.000 --> 02:04:32.135
not not withdrawing your statement. So

02:04:32.159 --> 02:04:33.896
it's not it's an operational matter. You

02:04:33.920 --> 02:04:36.135
might want to reflect on that.  I'm

02:04:36.159 --> 02:04:37.736
sure the GM knows what she's doing on

02:04:37.760 --> 02:04:39.976
legality.  operationally a decision

02:04:40.000 --> 02:04:42.536
was made. So  you've made a black and

02:04:42.560 --> 02:04:44.456
white statement and I'll just I'm

02:04:44.480 --> 02:04:46.456
respect the GM. Thank you. Councelor

02:04:46.480 --> 02:04:49.480
MacDonald.

02:04:49.920 --> 02:04:51.976
Okay. Is there any further discussion?

02:04:52.000 --> 02:04:53.496
If not, I'm going to put the motion. All

02:04:53.520 --> 02:04:54.056
those in favor.

02:04:54.080 --> 02:04:56.695
Mr. Mayor, you didn't you didn't rule on

02:04:56.719 --> 02:04:58.056
my point of order.

02:04:58.080 --> 02:04:59.256
What was your point of order? Tell me in

02:04:59.280 --> 02:05:00.615
the code of meeting practice what your

02:05:00.639 --> 02:05:02.056
point of order is.

02:05:02.080 --> 02:05:04.856
It was misleading information. And when

02:05:04.880 --> 02:05:06.056
that occurs there is

02:05:06.080 --> 02:05:08.376
I need you specifically point out the

02:05:08.400 --> 02:05:10.296
time and hold the meeting up. I'll find

02:05:10.320 --> 02:05:12.536
it. I'll find it. It might take me half

02:05:12.560 --> 02:05:14.296
an hour and I'm sure the rest in this

02:05:14.320 --> 02:05:15.976
room would be very happy for you to do

02:05:16.000 --> 02:05:17.095
that.

02:05:17.119 --> 02:05:19.256
The point of order is about um

02:05:19.280 --> 02:05:20.856
misleading information,

02:05:20.880 --> 02:05:23.016
misrepresentation of what actually

02:05:23.040 --> 02:05:24.536
occurred during a meeting.

02:05:24.560 --> 02:05:27.095
Well, you you're saying it's misleading.

02:05:27.119 --> 02:05:28.536
No, none of us have the resolution right

02:05:28.560 --> 02:05:29.816
in front of us here. The general manager

02:05:29.840 --> 02:05:32.776
has no reason to to be making things up.

02:05:32.800 --> 02:05:33.976
I

02:05:34.000 --> 02:05:36.456
Are you so on the record? Then I'd be

02:05:36.480 --> 02:05:38.376
interested. Are all other counselors

02:05:38.400 --> 02:05:40.376
here? No counselors

02:05:40.400 --> 02:05:43.400
under the impression that that when they

02:05:43.520 --> 02:05:45.336
made the decision on the resolution to

02:05:45.360 --> 02:05:47.655
go with the contractor

02:05:47.679 --> 02:05:50.536
 they did that on the understanding

02:05:50.560 --> 02:05:53.560
from um information during that meeting

02:05:53.679 --> 02:05:56.679
and prior to that meeting that the app

02:05:56.960 --> 02:05:58.456
you've already spoken you've already

02:05:58.480 --> 02:06:00.056
spoken on the item so if there's no

02:06:00.080 --> 02:06:01.256
further speakers I'm going to put the

02:06:01.280 --> 02:06:03.655
motion all those in favor councilors

02:06:03.679 --> 02:06:05.816
Broadbent Livermore MacDonald Preston

02:06:05.840 --> 02:06:07.816
Tasoski Waterhouse Willis Wilson and

02:06:07.840 --> 02:06:09.976
Winchester and against Grundy and

02:06:10.000 --> 02:06:13.000
Schwaget I declare it carried. Item 13.2

02:06:14.320 --> 02:06:16.536
councilor questions on agenda item for

02:06:16.560 --> 02:06:19.336
22 April 2026 meeting. I'm happy to move

02:06:19.360 --> 02:06:21.256
from the chair seconded councelor

02:06:21.280 --> 02:06:23.416
MacDonald. Is there discussion? We'll put

02:06:23.440 --> 02:06:26.440
the motion. All those in favor

02:06:26.639 --> 02:06:29.575
that's unanimous and carried. So I

02:06:29.599 --> 02:06:31.095
believe we dealt with all items on the

02:06:31.119 --> 02:06:33.336
agenda. It's 9:44. I declare the meeting

02:06:33.360 --> 02:06:34.776
closed. Thank you staff. Thank you

02:06:34.800 --> 02:06:37.800
counselors.